How much it "costs" to beat a laptop dac

[alaios]

For example,
is this https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Topping-...6985&sprefix=topping+dx3,aps,422&sr=8-17&th=1

able to beat my 1500 euros laptop build in dac?
If yes why laptop manufacturers are so cheap

Alex

 

[bluefuzz]

why laptop manufacturers are so cheap

I don't think it's necessarily because laptop manufacturers are 'cheap' as such. But there's a lot going on in a laptop and, regardless of how good the DAC implementation or quality of the DAC-chip, it is never going to achieve the same noise performance as a well-implemented dedicated external DAC like the Topping. SOTA DAC performance is simply not a priority in laptop.

 

[sweetchaos]

Here’s a motherboard DAC:

Do You Need an External DAC/Headphone Amplifier?

And finally, intermodulation distortion (again at 45 kHz bandwidth): Why many DACs shares a distortion "bump" between -40dBFS and -20dBFS? What a specialty is at these levels?

www.audiosciencereview.com

I expect similar performance with a laptop.

A $100 dedicated DAC is all you need.

 

[voodooless]

$9 Apple dongle should do it:

Review: Apple vs Google USB-C Headphone Adapters

This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Apple's USB-C adapter to the current and last version of Google Pixel headphone adapters. The Apple adapter costs just $9 including one day shipping for free. The Google dongle costs $12. Not that any of these are large by any stretch...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[jae]

Only laptops I've seen measured by a 3rd party with acceptable built in dac/amp fidelity are the new Macbook M1/M2s. Pretty much any good dongle or modern dedicated dac will be better

 

[alaios]

Here’s a motherboard DAC:

Do You Need an External DAC/Headphone Amplifier?

And finally, intermodulation distortion (again at 45 kHz bandwidth): Why many DACs shares a distortion "bump" between -40dBFS and -20dBFS? What a specialty is at these levels?

www.audiosciencereview.com

I expect similar performance with a laptop.

A $100 dedicated DAC is all you need.

what about the link I gave? That is a 75$ dedicated external DAC with preamp

 

[sweetchaos]

Topping dx1 is fine

 

[DanielT]

$9 Apple dongle should do it:

Review: Apple vs Google USB-C Headphone Adapters

This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Apple's USB-C adapter to the current and last version of Google Pixel headphone adapters. The Apple adapter costs just $9 including one day shipping for free. The Google dongle costs $12. Not that any of these are large by any stretch...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I have tested Apple's USB-C adapter with my Android tablet and believe me, what Amir says in that test is really true:

Note that my testing is all on Windows. I attempted to test on my Samsung S8+ and got odd results. Using both Google dongles, all they did was route the not so good sound of the internal DAC through the dongle (???). With Apple dongle I got music but level was very low. So if you plan to use the Apple dongle on an Android phone, you should do some compatibility testing.

To get the combination Android + Apple's USB-C to work well together, a small pre amp that boosts the signal is really needed.

Generally speaking of USB C DAC dongles, DO NOT buy any through a EU country (EU zone) as they often have that damned "amp brake" (reduced gain) in them. That's because EU's zealous bureaucrats has "realized" that we cannot cope with such dongles with too much amplification. Risk of hearing damage (that's what the bureaucrats think). As if we citizens are not old enough to cope with a volume control. Which is, I think, bloody ridiculous.

What will be the next step? Amplifiers, power amps with a maximum of X watts may only be sold?

 

[jae]

DX1 has been measured by the Chinese L7Audiolab: https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/topping-dx1, it is a top performer at SINAD ~115 dB.

Even most dedicated PC sound cards (that you would install inside a desktop PC don't usually have top class performance, even the well regarded/expensive ones:

Most laptops measure even worse than this, they tend to be noisy and the amplification is underpowered. As others have said, good amp/dac performance in a laptop is not priority for manufacturers and there is no point for them to cut into their profit margins to try to achieve this, average consumers either don't care/appreciate it or are either using external or even wireless devices these days which is further incentive for them not to bother, especially when a $10 dongle achieves the same thing. Soon you will see audio jacks removed completely from laptops altogether if that is not happening already.

 

[alaios]

very interesting input
So in other words it pays off to invest in such external little dacs at the end of the day.
The DX1 can fit in my laptop bag.
Any smallish speakers that can also fit into my backpack and can upgrade my sound experience? (Yes I will not have bass.)

 

[Lambda]

If yes why laptop manufacturers are so cheap

DAC/ADC in laptops is no longer a propriety normal uses have Bluetooth headphones.
And if they used it at home you expected to used a USB C docking station.

 

[BDWoody]

Any smallish speakers that can also fit into my backpack and can upgrade my sound experience? (Yes I will not have bass.)

Headphones maybe?

 

[Lambda]

So in other words it pays off to invest in such external little dacs at the end of the day.

Waht makes you think this?

Any smallish speakers that can also fit into my backpack and can upgrade my sound experience? (Yes I will not have bass.)

Bluetooth/wifi speakers or a "sound bar"
they don't even need a DAC

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

Headphones maybe?

Or the upcoming Drop BMR1 nearfield monitors?

 

[Trell]

Generally speaking of USB C DAC dongles, DO NOT buy any through a EU country (EU zone) as they often have that damned "amp brake" (reduced gain) in them. That's because EU's zealous bureaucrats has "realized" that we cannot cope with such dongles with too much amplification. Risk of hearing damage (that's what the bureaucrats think). As if we citizens are not old enough to cope with a volume control. Which is, I think, bloody ridiculous.

My guess is that a number of young ears will have a reduced hearing damage because of this and similar audio requirements.

 

[DanielT]

My guess is that a number of young ears will have a reduced hearing damage because of this and similar audio requirements.

So it may be. It is a balance of pros and cons with such regulation. In the US there are no such restrictions, right?

In any case, it would have been understandable if you couldn't change the volume on your tablet or mobile, but you can. Even young people and children can manage to do that, regulate the volume, that is.

 

[jindy30]

I have tested Apple's USB-C adapter with my Android tablet and believe me, what Amir says in that test is really true:

Note that my testing is all on Windows. I attempted to test on my Samsung S8+ and got odd results. Using both Google dongles, all they did was route the not so good sound of the internal DAC through the dongle (???). With Apple dongle I got music but level was very low. So if you plan to use the Apple dongle on an Android phone, you should do some compatibility testing.

To get the combination Android + Apple's USB-C to work well together, a small pre amp that boosts the signal is really needed.

Generally speaking of USB C DAC dongles, DO NOT buy any through a EU country (EU zone) as they often have that damned "amp brake" (reduced gain) in them. That's because EU's zealous bureaucrats has "realized" that we cannot cope with such dongles with too much amplification. Risk of hearing damage (that's what the bureaucrats think). As if we citizens are not old enough to cope with a volume control. Which is, I think, bloody ridiculous.

What will be the next step? Amplifiers, power amps with a maximum of X watts may only be sold?

maybe it not the adults they are worried about. They have probably lost their hearing aready, haha

 

[kestrel4]

Who uses analogue headphones these days, apart from audiophiles? All USB and bluetooth headphones have their own built-in DAC. I have Bose QC35ii (bluetooth, noise-cancelling; everything audiophiles hate) and they are excellent; really good. Then I bought Sennheiser HD-650 (analogue audio jack, highly rated). They are good but not as clear as that beautiful Bose sound. So now I have to buy an external DAC for my PC to get the best out of the HD-650. I only hope it works!