How Much Distortion Can you Hear?

[BoredErica]

I dunno how I managed to get slightly above average lol. It was very hard since I couldn't quickly switch back between two tracks later in the track, so I just tried to hear for distortion in the first 3-5 seconds of the test track over and over. Past -12db I was already struggling a lot. It's also interesting to see how Count Arthur's bell curve differs. Theirs is for full range speaker and I'm testing with 1 LS50 Meta, and it makes me wonder if the differences are more to random variation, full range speakers being more revealing somehow, or listener demographics.

I always thought my hearing abilities were below average because I don't notice big differences between most speakers (excluding super duper bad ones or ones clearly missing a lot of bass/etc). I think I can hear differences level matched by ear with an a/b switch but I usually struggle more than I anticipated even when I know preference score differs a lot. It's hard for me to relate to people who hear big differences in cables because if anything my bias usually trends towards not hearing a difference or there being a difference but being quite small when it comes to swapping speakers/other gear. If I suffer from placebo my placebo almost never goes that far.

 

[Count Arthur]

Past -12db I was already struggling a lot.

I found the same.

Incidentally, I chose the full range setting, but I was actually listening with headphones, Sennheiser HD560s. I also did the test twice. I scored lower on my first go.

For the second test I increased the volume a fair bit, such that it was proably a bit louder than I would typically listen and that made it easier to hear the distortion.

 

[Robbo99999]

I got -33dB using HD560s headphones (no EQ for this test, and a bit less than my normal listening level) - on the Klippel Test using Joss Stone, haven't tried any of the other tracks yet. (I only ran this test once)

https://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/?page=test&testrunId=663101&step=17&answer=1

I remember trying this test a year or more ago using my K702 headphones, which would have been EQ'd at the time, and if I remember rightly I only identified -15dB when I tried it back then. (I don't have any training in identifying distortion, and only tested myself twice in total in my lifetime, lol).

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I had an interesting experience in troubleshooting a problem I've had for a couple months with a high frequency 'tizz' becoming audible only in certain instances on certain instruments, usually massed strings in classical music. I've performed distortion and headroom measurements throughout my system, and nothing has seemed amiss, yet the high frequency noise is still there and it seems unrelated harmonically to the music.

Turns out that the cause is a vacuum tube in my preamp which for some reason developed just enough distortion to be heard. We're talking 0.07% vs the more typical 0.015%, which is apparently enough of an increase to become audible as a higher frequency tone on top of the sound of some instruments. The solution was to replace the tubes (12AX7A) with ones selected for minimum distortion (easier said than done).

By the way, I use a tube preamp because of the unusual gain structure of my system which uses highly efficient horn speakers which make any noise upstream painfully obvious. A good amount of the gain is from the preamp, and the power amplifiers are modified to have relatively low (or unity) gain. Its easier to get low noise from the preamp than from the power amplifiers, which are also vacuum tube for reasons I'm not going to get into here.

 

[DanielT]

8-9% via my speakers on my Tablet.Maybe lower, it went fast in the video so maybe at lower % ... not because it matters but still ...

Damn I may not have gold ears! Great, my HiFi wallet will be happy.

 

[DanielT]

On the other hand, when your speaker has 1% distortion in the bass at normal listening levels (mainly 2nd harm) there is still a case for an amp being well below that level, certainly when harmonics are higher order.

Bass? What frequencies then? I wonder if there are those who hear difference at 5-10% distortion at 50 Hz? Even up to 80-100 Hz?
Normal people at home listening to their sound system people. Not professionals that is to say. The pros have probably learned to 'sniff' up distortion.

Yes, I know it's probably not possible to answer that question (this with subjectivity and experience)but I'm throwing it out anyway.

 

[solderdude]

With a constant tone at 'normal' listening levels 1% may be audible (-46dB at 100Hz) but is relatively smaller in level of 50Hz because the hearing is less sensitive at those levels and lower frequencies.
For bass notes (which have high harmonics when played) in music 1% is very likely not audible nor sound degrading as most harmonics will be 'tube like' in that they will be mainly 2nd order, maybe some 3rd.
An amplifier with 1% distortion at those levels (is crappy to begin with) but could have a higher harmonics spectrum.

So indeed it is very hard to predict how audible what distortion is with which recording.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Ipad and 5usd Sony earplugs.Test tones are MUCH easier to evaluate than music…

 

[DanielT]

With a constant tone at 'normal' listening levels 1% may be audible (-46dB at 100Hz) but is relatively smaller in level of 50Hz because the hearing is less sensitive at those levels and lower frequencies.
For bass notes (which have high harmonics when played) in music 1% is very likely not audible nor sound degrading as most harmonics will be 'tube like' in that they will be mainly 2nd order, maybe some 3rd.
An amplifier with 1% distortion at those levels (is crappy to begin with) but could have a higher harmonics spectrum.

So indeed it is very hard to predict how audible what distortion is with which recording.

For my own part, to be honest, it's that FU*** transformer hum from my vintage receiver HK 330C that annoys me the most! Although in this case I am not so picky because it is part of my secondary sound system but despite that ... Now it has gone too far! To the extent that I almost do not want to keep it in my bedroom! The distortion itself in it I do not care at all about, but this hum! That FU*"" HUM!

Sorry, OT, but I could not help it.

Edit:
See it as a word of warning. Technical specifications old receivers, amplifiers for sure. But then ...

Note, Solderdude you do not need to give practical tips and advice in this thread regarding my problems with my HK330C. I can adress that in some other thread. I just wanted to vent my frustration.