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How Much Distortion Can you Hear?

Doodski

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An interesting test probably posted before although it didn't come up in a search.

Also try difference sources ie ear phones vs speakers.
Yes, this has come up before although going from memory it did not have a dedicated thread. I could be wrong. :D
 

Weeb Labs

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5% for the music, 0.5% for the 500Hz sine and 1.5% for the 100Hz sine. A dual tone test such as the one available on Klippel's website also produces rather interesting results. My threshold for the Klippel 70/800Hz test was -65dB.
 

solderdude

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I am not that fussed about distortion levels in electronic levels. 0.01% is easy to reach and has been for decades already.
Only transducers and tube designs with very little feedback are worse but even for tube designs 0.1% can be reached.

I am a strong proponent of doing such tests. A potential snag could be when one tries to determine the difference between 0.1 and 0.001% while using speakers or headphones that already introduce well over 1% for instance.
 

Count Arthur

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5% for the music, 0.5% for the 500Hz sine and 1.5% for the 100Hz sine. A dual tone test such as the one available on Klippel's website also produces rather interesting results. My threshold for the Klippel 70/800Hz test was -65dB.
What do you know, slap bang in the middle of the bell curve:

1642587275289.png


@solderdude, Given that speakers/transducers are the weakest link in the chain, should we stop worrying too much about DAC/amp preformance?

Would we do better to focus on having plenty of amp power rather than worring about 0.1% versus 0.05% THD?
 

solderdude

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Distortion is actually a complex issue.
There are many kinds of distortion.

Take for instance crossover distortion from poorly biased class AB amp.
measure distortion at near full power and SINAD will look good.
Listen to the amp at softer listening levels and you can hear not so pleasant distortion while the SINAD number may look good.

This is just an example... In most cases where amps measure 0.001 % or better over 20Hz-20kHz chances are there will be no audible distortion.

On the other hand, when your speaker has 1% distortion in the bass at normal listening levels (mainly 2nd harm) there is still a case for an amp being well below that level, certainly when harmonics are higher order.
 

restorer-john

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Take for instance crossover distortion from poorly biased class AB amp.
measure distortion at near full power and SINAD will look good.
Listen to the amp at softer listening levels and you can hear not so pleasant distortion while the SINAD number may look good.

Seriously, crossover distortion has been a non-issue for half a century or more. It was identified, solved and discussed until the cows came home. The fact that silly old Benchmark dredge it up, misrepresent the severity of it, and claim to have miraculously solved it (yet again) is hilarious. Don't make the same mistake as they do. Please.

Show me several, decent, integrated/power amplifers form any major manufacturers in the last 50 years with crossover distortion problems. Seriously, I bet you cannot.

It's a dead-horse in 2022 and you know it.
 

Andysu

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I hear lots of tinnitus distortion, hissing in my ears no thanks to hollywood soundmixer and that rubbish movie 'battlestar galatica' 1979 in 1.1 sensurround for a constant 120dB for 120mins. 'eartthquake' 70mm sensurround didn't leave me with hearing damage as that wasn't constant 120dB for near same running time as 'battlestar' was.

as for audio pa studio and cinema processors, distortion I don't really care anymore. dolby labs make garbage trash processors that have signal noise and distortion and even soundmixer movies have garbage trash digital clipping distortion on and off on some garbage trash movies like 'Armageddon' and 'Apollo 13' and few others I noticed. I don't care anymore as I type, I hear hissing in my ears and can't be asked to get out of bed. There is your distortion answer.
 

RayDunzl

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5% for the music, 0.5% for the 500Hz sine and 1.5% for the 100Hz sine.

Low levels of distortion in music is difficult to notice, because musical notes already contain tons of "distortion", and any equipment distortion just modifies that a little.

A single Electric Bass Guitar note electrical signal:

22.7% distortion, or next to none, depending upon how you feel about it.

47.6% noise? Well, it was me playing it.

index.php
 

solderdude

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Seriously, crossover distortion has been a non-issue for half a century or more. It was identified, solved and discussed until the cows came home. The fact that silly old Benchmark dredge it up, misrepresent the severity of it, and claim to have miraculously solved it (yet again) is hilarious. Don't make the same mistake as they do. Please.

Show me several, decent, integrated/power amplifers form any major manufacturers in the last 50 years with crossover distortion problems. Seriously, I bet you cannot.

It's a dead-horse in 2022 and you know it.

I know you are a repairguy... just like me (in the past).
Can you honestly tell me you never had to adjust the bias or replace the idle current pot in an older amp ?

Just mentioned that even when you measure an amp with crossover distortion that it would not show clearly in THD measurements taken at near full power.
 

DVDdoug

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How much distortion can you hear?
I don't know and I don't care! :p It is a complicated question because there are too many variables but I'm pretty sure I can't hear 1% THD and if I was buying an amplifier I wouldn't bother comparing distortion specs.

I virtually NEVER HEAR distortion unless something is broken. I do remember it from the vinyl days,... Occasional distortion on LPs (tracking distortion?) and frequent distortion on 45's.

When I was in high school & college I worked at a radio/TV repair shop and I had a couple of interesting experiences with distortion... I was troubleshooting something (probably a car stereo) with some rather bad distortion. The more I listened to it, the more I adapted and I started questioning if there was really anything wrong... I had to listen to something "clean" to reset my ears so I could hear the distortion again. (We didn't have any kind of distortion analyzer so I was just listening to music.)

[/QUOTE]
 

Pdxwayne

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An interesting test probably posted before although it didn't come up in a search.

Also try difference sources ie ear phones vs speakers.
@DamianW, I have a thread for Klippel at:


Please add your result there if possible.
 

Andysu

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I hear about 100% distortion when filmmixer, soundmixer mixes movie soundtracks I always hear this distortion sound in the bass of most nearly all dolby movie soundtrack sound delivery formats even pcm. dreadful soundmixers on movies, dreadful sounding distortion.
 

Pdxwayne

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I used k371 with my Note9 phone to checked the video.

For music, it is absolutely obvious to me when about 8%.

But when focus on the high notes in the music, it starts losing it's slight echo trail character at about 0.7% or so.

Anyone noticed that?
 
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