How much difference in sound quality will you hear between qutest and tone board ?

[andreasmaaan]

If all dacs sounds the same most of this website is pointless. That's the paradox of ASR.

We're not all here only for the DAC measurements

But it is important I think to catch out DACs that don't perform as they should, and I also find it academically impressive at least when a DAC measures exceptionally well for its price or in general.

 

[edechamps]

If all dacs sounds the same most of this website is pointless. That's the paradox of ASR.

All competently engineered DACs sound the same. ASR is useful for separating the well-engineered DACs from the poorly designed ones. Note that this has nothing to do with price, as evidenced by the impressive results from that $9 Apple dongle, or that $600 DAC that can't manage more than 10 bits.

In a way I agree with you somewhat, in the sense that a lot of activity on ASR happens on reviews that I personally find uninteresting: really cheap products that perform badly, or reasonably expensive products that perform well. Both are unsurprising, really, though I guess confirmation never hurts. I don't see much point on debating the relative merits of products that all have 80+ SINAD and no obvious flaws; they all sound the same, anyway. The reviews that do catch my interest are those where the performance of the product seems to defy its price tag: an excellent product sold at basement bargain prices (Apple dongle example), which is a rare find; or an expensive, yet poorly performing product, which is more common but always entertaining to laugh at.

To me, the most important and actionable reviews on ASR are those that tell you how cheap you can go before you run the risk of getting truly audible issues. Thanks to ASR (and @amirm in particular), the next time I'm in the market for a stereo DAC and/or headphone amp, I know I can get away with only spending $9 so I can spend the rest of the budget on headphones or speakers, where it actually matters. That kind of data is invaluable if we ever hope to bring some sanity to the audio market.

 

[solderdude]

If most people doing measurement here thinks ......

Its not people doing the measurement here thinks ... its YOU claiming this based on incorrect assumptions you made.

The objective of ASR is NOT to tell you they all measure differently but secretly sound the same.
Consider you are completely missing the point of ASR, measurements and discussing the outcome.
The 'mission' of ASR has been explained quite a few times.
Live with it, learn from it instead of kicking against it.

 

[M00ndancer]

If most people doing measurement here thinks every well engeneered dac sound the same why doing some comparative table of measurements then? the reviews should be more simple and with only two parameters:
- render sound as it should
- alter the sound.
It would be enough.
And then the comparative would be the cheaper one that are 'render sound as it should the better.

What's the goal of comparing sinads at unhearable levels ?? Or measuring dynamic range of 100 dbs when most records are below 20db of dynamic range.

If all dacs sounds the same most of this website is pointless. That's the paradox of ASR.

Those claiming transparency of most dac should then claim inutility of the reviews.

That's just the thing. Most DACs sound the same. The extensive test here at ASR proves that. It also shows that price have nothing to do with performance. The test also weeds out the garbage. If it wasn't for this site I wouldn't now that there's nothing really wrong with my DAC/AMP combo (HAD-1) except for the high impedance on the headphone out. But that is what I can afford at the moment with the features I need. And that's fine. I have knowledge about the things I own/want/might purchase in the future. I also learned that the last thing in the chain, speakers, roomtreament and headphones makes the biggest difference. Getting the best bang for your buck and needs can be one of the goals. Well engineered and stylish another goal. But at least you are informed about the bad eggs.

 

[danadam]

If most people doing measurement here thinks every well engeneered dac sound the same why doing some comparative table of measurements then?
[...]
What's the goal of comparing sinads at unhearable levels ?? Or measuring dynamic range of 100 dbs when most records are below 20db of dynamic range.

Curiosity?

 

[Calexico]

Curiosity?

Curiosity is fine. Tests on reviews here are made without the curiosity to find new tests that could show other differences. Some people on the discussions do other tests and it's very interesting.

If small sinad difference is unhearable why not testing the amplitudr precision at 19khz at different levels with a 44.1khz wave. if the test will show unhearable differences it believe it could show different results. That could also show the quality of engineering.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Curiosity is fine. Tests on reviews here are made without the curiosity to find new tests that could show other differences. Some people on the discussions do other tests and it's very interesting.

Suggest some other tests. Some suggestions have been tried and no need to beat a dead horse. But what tests would illuminate the gear under review in ways not currently being done?

 

[Calexico]

Suggest some other tests. Some suggestions have been tried and no need to beat a dead horse. But what tests would illuminate the gear under review in ways not currently being done?

At 19khz testing the precision and dynamic range. I believe there will be differences between dacs.

 

[Blumlein 88]

At 19khz testing the precision and dynamic range. I believe there will be differences between dacs.

Okay, what do you mean by precision? Dynamic range I get. Usually done at 1 khz, but can be done at 19 khz. I've done that actually, in my few tests little difference vs the 1 khz version.

 

[Calexico]

Okay, what do you mean by precision? Dynamic range I get. Usually done at 1 khz, but can be done at 19 khz. I've done that actually, in my few tests little difference vs the 1 khz version.

Check how much bits of precision can be rendered at 19khz.
I remember you made the very interesting test at 10khz.

 

[amirm]

At 19khz testing the precision and dynamic range. I believe there will be differences between dacs.

Most people can't hear 19 kHz regardless of its precision. Even if you did, threshold of hearing is very high at this frequency so you don't hear small details anyway. A full amplitude 19 kHz tone also doesn't appear in real music.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Check how much bits of precision can be rendered at 19khz.
I remember you made the very interesting test at 10khz.

Actually it was 12 khz with 48 khz sample rates. The Delta sigma Dacs are near perfect on those tests. No reason to think they wouldn't be with 19 khz, but the methodology of testing is more complex.

 

[Calexico]

Actually it was 12 khz with 48 khz sample rates. The Delta sigma Dacs are near perfect on those tests. No reason to think they wouldn't be with 19 khz, but the methodology of testing is more complex.

I don't say they won't be perfect i say it's there that there could be differences between dacs. Maybe more revealing differences than sinad test.

 

[Calexico]

Most people can't hear 19 kHz regardless of its precision. Even if you did, threshold of hearing is very high at this frequency so you don't hear small details anyway. A full amplitude 19 kHz tone also doesn't appear in real music.

1. If it's unhearable why do you care of the small roll-off of some of the filters?
2. It could show other differences between dacs. Like sinad show differences although almost all the time unhearable.
3. It could tell us on anither parameter about the quality of engineering.
4. And there s some debate and some scientist have done tests that leads to conclusion that unhearble high frequency made a difference in the brain activity that was associated with enjoyment.
Some here think it's wrong test i don't know.

By the way it could help to caracterise dac engendering quality.

So why not being curious about this parameter?

 

[Veri]

1. If it's unhearable why do you care of the small roll-off of some of the filters?

Amir always says something like "which might be audible to younger people".

 

[ceausuc]

What percentage of gain in sound quality would i expect to hear between the qutest and khadas tone board ?

That's a useless question sir, especially here.
Please remember that a dac is used in a system(ears included) and with music material that may hold it back.
You may get "better" sound by improving other components of the chain with 1500$.

 

[solderdude]

Aside from the multitone and imaging test the ETC is also an interesting test.

 

[Standing in the rain]

That's a useless question sir, especially here.
Please remember that a dac is used in a system(ears included) and with music material that may hold it back.
You may get "better" sound by improving other components of the chain with 1500$.

No question is ever useless. Sir.

 

[Calexico]

Aside from the multitone and imaging test the ETC is also an interesting test.

Can you explain it? I chek the link ak240 did you find the etc result good?
I compared the etc from the ak240 with etc from nos dac and it's totally different looking. Wich is better?
https://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/dac/muse-audio-4x-tda1543-nos-dsc.php#rw31

 

[solderdude]

I just picked one.
You can compare to other DAC's/DAP's and see how they differ and may be similar.
Can't say much about the audible aspects of it but does say something about filter aspects of how 'energy' of an illegal ? signal into the filter is spread out over time.
It only says something about the filter's response though and not how it handles playback of non-illegal signals.
There are more specialist folks here that can say more about the ETC.
It is part of a measurement suite which can be helpful in assessing performance of said device.
All aspects need to be weighed, not just one.

You asked for other measurements than the ones used.
This is one of them.