How much can an audio component 'lift'?

[NicC]

Members, I upgraded our speakers to the Ascend ELX towers (based on input from ASR members) and have never heard my music like this before - even in shop demos with speakers at 20K+, along with expensive gear feeding them. My understanding is that speakers and room are the most important links in the sound-quality chain. I am wondering what percent improvement (I like numbers) is remaining between say DACs and dedicated streamers and amps and such? The reason I ask is, I read reviews of the Marantz Model 30, and they claim this piece of equipment can make a significant difference to sound quality. Obviously they don't/can't say by how much, but my non-audiophile brain equates that statement to about 20-30%. I thought it worthwhile to ask you all with much more experience and knowledge than me. My modest system sounds great now (Marantz AVR SR5011, Emotiva XPA 5, DefTec sub), so I wouldn't consider any further purchases as I am not chasing a few small percentage points here or there. My suspicion is reviewers say these things for the hype. What does the Science say? Thanks in advance to any who can guide in this area. Has anyone been in this situation? Great sound already but a particular component made it 'wow'? Or are speakers and room say, 90% of the equation?

 

[Beershaun]

The website has the spinorama here. https://ascendacoustics.com/products/elx-tower-pair?variant=40602626916406

Looking at it I would say the biggest increase will come from adding a subwoofer. So you get full range flat down to 20hz. It will also remove the hardest most power demanding load from your amplifier.

 

[Beave]

You probably won't get any *real* sound quality improvement from a different AVR/amp/receiver, or a different DAC, or a different streamer.

You WILL get *real* sound quality improvements from:
1) a better subwoofer and/or a second subwoofer
2) use of EQ in the bass region
3) improvements/tweaks to speaker positioning, room layout, room acoustics, and listening position.

So,, as you kind of guessed, speakers and room make BY FAR the biggest difference assuming the electronics aren't completely incompetent.

 

[DVDdoug]

Speakers are EVERYTHING as long as you have enough amplifier power. That's ignoring things like surround sound or EQ & room correction. (That's also assuming you're not playing analog records. )

Audiophoolery discusses the REAL characteristics of sound quality. With speakers it's mostly about on-axis & off axis frequency response and how that interacts with the room... And it's "complicted".

When it comes to electronics it's only noise, distortion, and frequency response. Sometimes there is audible noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background) but unfortunately there's more than one way to measure or specify it so in order to compare you need standardized independent measurements (like you find here), But if noise is audible or not depends on the gain of your amplifier(s), the sensitivity of your speakers, how close you are to the speakers, and other noise in the room, etc.

Frequency response and distortion in electronics is almost always better than human hearing unless you over-drive an amplifier into clipping/distortion.

 

[JeffS7444]

If you haven't done so already, I'd recommend purchasing the Audyssey MultiEQ app (~20 USD) for iOS or Android. This will give you more control over the room correction that's already built into your Marantz AVR.

 

[JSmith]

Members, I upgraded our speakers to the Ascend ELX towers (based on input from ASR members) and have never heard my music like this before - even in shop demos with speakers at 20K+, along with expensive gear feeding them.

Nice, excellent speakers.

I am wondering what percent improvement (I like numbers) is remaining between say DACs and dedicated streamers and amps and such?

Generally in many cases, close to zero in regards to audibility. In regards to excellent measurements and design, this varies as per the measurement reviews here.

Best thing to do next is get a UMIK & REW, take some in room measurements and apply EQ where/if needed.


JSmith

 

[NicC]

I find it remarkable, the money that can be saved, by asking the right people the right questions. Thank you to all.

 

[board]

As has been mentioned before, room correction makes a big difference.
I used to have a Naim two-box Amp, then compared it to an Arcam SR250 and a Nord Purifi integrated and heard small differences between them on almost every song, but it was still noticeable. And yes, I matched the volume level.
Then I switched on room correction, and all three sounded the same, and I just gave up comparing them. I bought the Arcam, as it comes with room correction, and then sold the Naim and returned the Nord.

A friend of mine, who doesn't care much about sound quality, had an old Denon receiver, then upgraded to a new Marantz (I forget the model name) and said that it was a surprisingly big improvement. And yes, it's just an anecdote.
But upgrading from that Marantz, or yours, probably won't make much of a difference. So 1 %? 5 %?
And do we care about such a small improvement? At some point the equipment is "good enough". I've tried out different products and thought I heard some differences (and maybe I didn't, or maybe it was only volume level), but the differences seemed insignificant.
So, I think listening for yourself to get rid of doubt and determining if it's actually worth it to you is important.

 

[Oddball]

If I am not mistaken, your AVR comes with Audy XT. That is below XT32 that has higher resolution filters in the low end. Not sure if that would make any difference in your case, just mentioning. Also don't know if your AVR is compatible with the $20 D&M app and $200 MultiEQ-X app. One of them is definitively needed to improve your calibration and experience.

While the more expensive one has more options and visual interface, the cheaper one is on fire with all the good work from @OCA that came up with various ways to enhance the outcome, although it requires some technical knowledge as most of it is script.

 

[NicC]

I’m gathering room correction is important. I thought you place the speakers by trial and error and see where they give the best sound. The Marantz has AudysseyXT, which I performed. Does it make significant differences to where and how the drivers send the soundwaves? Or is it merely adjusting EQ levels? Or are those two things indeed the same thing?

 

[kemmler3D]

I am wondering what percent improvement (I like numbers) is remaining between say DACs and dedicated streamers and amps and such? The reason I ask is, I read reviews of the Marantz Model 30, and they claim this piece of equipment can make a significant difference to sound quality. Obviously they don't/can't say by how much, but my non-audiophile brain equates that statement to about 20-30%.

The reality is more like 0.2%, as others have mentioned. And in terms of audibility, actually zero.

The good/bad news is that once you have upgraded your speakers, treated your room and done room correction, there aren't a lot of places to spend money on better sound.

 

[Keith_W]

I’m gathering room correction is important. I thought you place the speakers by trial and error and see where they give the best sound. The Marantz has AudysseyXT, which I performed. Does it make significant differences to where and how the drivers send the soundwaves? Or is it merely adjusting EQ levels? Or are those two things indeed the same thing?

The dimensions of your room means that below certain frequencies, wavelengths form organised room modes. This is known as the Schroeder frequency. These room modes have minimum-phase regions. "Minimum-phase" means that the anomaly can be corrected by inversion of the frequency response. It is only these regions that can be corrected by "room correction". It is impossible and meaningless to do "room correction" above these frequencies, but that does not stop unsophisticated algorithms from trying.

Loudspeakers should be placed where they give their best sound above the Schroeder frequency. Unfortunately, these positions may not coincide with where they are most advantageous for bass reproduction. This is why we use subwoofers - we can place speakers where they are best to produce imaging, and place the subs where they are best for bass.

 

[Chrispy]

Glad you think of such, have always enjoyed my various Ascend speakers.....but don't have yours.