How much better?

[Ssend]

How much better?

I am considering getting new speakers, but I wonder: Is it really going to make a difference?

In one sense my question is about diminishing returns, but it’s also about speaker design and tonality, and about the power of EQ and room correction.

Here’s my situation: for many years I’ve been listening with my old Marantz 2285b and a pair of KEF C65s. The Marantz started showing its age, and I wanted to experiment.

So.. I had the opportunity to try a little tube amp, a SET 45, along with a pair of Klipsch Forte iii. The amp was the weak link in that chain, so it’s moved on, and now I’m working with MiniDsp SHD and a Buckeye nc502, but still with the Fortes.

I’ve gotten things sounding pretty good with REW and Dirac…but can it be better? I'm thinking so. But would a different pair of speakers make a real, audible difference? Or can I figure that with that kind of power, eq, and signal processing, I’m getting as good as it will get?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[Doodski]

I remember the C65 well. I sold KEF at the time to great success. Wonderful speakers. How much better are your Klipsch Forte iii? Of course a speaker upgrade will bring improvements. The question is how much are you willing to spend?

 

[Ultrasonic]

What does your in-room response look like? One option would be to add a subwoofer...

 

[Ssend]

I remember the C65 well. I sold KEF at the time to great success. Wonderful speakers. How much better are your Klipsch Forte iii? Of course a speaker upgrade will bring improvements. The question is how much are you willing to spend?

Good questions! The C65 definitely don't have the bottom end of the Fortes. I have them in storage... I should get them out and give them another try. Maybe with a subwoofer I could get that bottom. As for spending, I'm still in the speculating stages, and I'd have to work out the logic of converting equipment to cash, but I'd guess 4k would be my ceiling.
Thanks!

 

[Ssend]

What does your in-room response look like? One option would be to add a subwoofer...

 

[Doodski]

Good questions! The C65 definitely don't have the bottom end of the Fortes. I have them in storage... I should get them out and give them another try. Maybe with a subwoofer I could get that bottom. As for spending, I'm still in the speculating stages, and I'd have to work out the logic of converting equipment to cash, but I'd guess 4k would be my ceiling.
Thanks!

Hmmz. Going on a hunch I say bigger JBLs might be a choice for you. I think you would need to spend more money than $4K to get a major improvement in any speaker system compared to the Klipsch. The JBLs have the punch and the horn sound and you might like them over the Klipsch.

 

[Ssend]

Hmmz. Going on a hunch I say bigger JBLs might be a choice for you. I think you would need to spend more money than $4K to get a major improvement in any speaker system compared to the Klipsch. The JBLs have the punch and the horn sound and you might like them over the Klipsch.

Are you thinking of any JBLs in particular?
I'm wondering if it isn't the horn sound that's bugging me. Just a little!

 

[Doodski]

Are you thinking of any JBLs in particular?
I'm wondering if it isn't the horn sound that's bugging me. Just a little!

Horns do have a sound although not all horns sound the same. I've owned horn speakers and the midrange was snappy, trombones, trumpets and vocals sounded great and drums had great snap. If you are unsure of your Klipsch horn sound then try something non-horn or different horns. I noticed for years after using horns daily that everything else sounded less snappy and not very good sizzle on trumpets and such.

JBLs like this 7 series stuff. JBL will cost more maybe. The JBL M2 is a phenomenal speaker although much more money as in ~3x your budget.

 

[Ssend]

Horns do have a sound although not all horns sound the same. I've owned horn speakers and the midrange was snappy, trombones, trumpets and vocals sounded great and drums had great snap. If you are unsure of your Klipsch horn sound then try something non-horn or different horns. I noticed for years after using horns daily that everything else sounded less snappy and not very good sizzle on trumpets and such.

JBLs like this 7 series stuff. JBL will cost more maybe. The JBL M2 is a phenomenal speaker although much more money as in ~3x your budget.

And they're so SMALL!
And pricey.

Now I just have to find a way to listen to new things. Now that showrooms and stores are a thing of the past.

 

[Ssend]

What does your in-room response look like? One option would be to add a subwoofer...

Yes. Been thinking that might be a good way to go, although the Forte are not exactly shallow.. I think they bottom out at 38hz. But I have wondered if going lower might help.

 

[Ultrasonic]

Is that measurement at the sort of level's you listen at? That's LOUD!

There's musical content at 30 Hz that you're currently missing out on, and high-pass filtering your main speakers may improve the mid-range too. You'd need a capable sub to reach the sort of levels you showed over the bottom octave though, with a ported sub probably being best for this and to match the bass sound of your main speakers. So we're not talking something small or easy to demo.

Just thinking of a way to potentially improve the sound without messing up what you mostly like, noting that a real strength of the SHD is subwoofer integration. You may not like the results though, or the additional large box!

 

[Doodski]

And they're so SMALL!
And pricey.

Now I just have to find a way to listen to new things. Now that showrooms and stores are a thing of the past.

Yes, the JBL 7 Series are not large speakers.

If you are in a major city you could try to get into a audio show when they happen 1 or 2 times a year. The Vegas CES is the biggest and apparently the best show but you might need a inside connection to get admittance to that. That depends on the admittance rules for the next year's show. Otherwise there are shows all over the USA at major centers.

 

[Ssend]

Is that measurement at the sort of level's you listen at? That's LOUD!

There's musical content at 30 Hz that you're currently missing out on, and high-pass filtering your main speakers may improve the mid-range too. You'd need a capable sub to reach the sort of levels you showed over the bottom octave though, with a ported sub probably being best for this and to match the bass sound of your main speakers. So we're not talking something small or easy to demo.

Just thinking of a way to potentially improve the sound without messing up what you mostly like, noting that a real strength of the SHD is subwoofer integration. You may not like the results though, or the additional large box!

Right. My listening levels are not that loud! Just learning my way around REW and measurement.
I have wondered the same thing about supporting that lower octave.

 

[Ssend]

Yes, the JBL 7 Series are not large speakers.

If you are in a major city you could try to get into a audio show when they happen 1 or 2 times a year. The Vegas CES is the biggest and apparently the best show but you might need a inside connection to get admittance to that. That depends on the admittance rules for the next year's show. Otherwise there are shows all over the USA at major centers.

Of course. I had never thought of that.. never been to an audio show. Kind of forgot they exist!
I'm fairly rural.. actually.. very rural, but I could make my way if I had to.

 

[Ssend]

Right. My listening levels are not that loud! Just learning my way around REW and measurement.
I have wondered the same thing about supporting that lower octave.

But the large box is a real concern.. not a huge room. But I will mock it up a bit and see what I can manage.

 

[Doodski]

Of course. I had never thought of that.. never been to an audio show. Kind of forgot they exist!
I'm fairly rural.. actually.. very rural, but I could make my way if I had to.

Vega CES happens in the 1-2 week of January every year. There are other shows but you'll need to source them. Many shows admit whoever wants to attend and some are for industry insiders with a titles like, buyer, sales, manager, technician etc etc...

 

[Ssend]

Vega CES happens in the 1-2 week of January every year. There are other shows but you'll need to source them. Many shows admit whoever wants to attend and some are for industry insiders with a titles like, buyer, sales, manager, technician etc etc...

I'm east coast, so I won't get out there, but there must be something around here. I'm in upstate NY area, but could get to NYC or to Boston if I had to. Just have to think of a title.

 

[Doodski]

I'm east coast, so I won't get out there, but there must be something around here. I'm in upstate NY area, but could get to NYC or to Boston if I had to. Just have to think of a title.

I went to the Vegas CES as a buyer, sales and a tech and when as a tech I used a company name of a separate business that was unrelated to being a techy. They accepted that. You are in a prime area for shows. Big cities have big shows. Somebody here will know the show info for your region.

 

[Ssend]

I went to the Vegas CES as a buyer, sales and a tech and when as a tech I used a company name of a separate business that was unrelated to being a techy. They accepted that. You are in a prime area for shows. Big cities have big shows. Somebody here will know the show info for your region.

I will check it out.

I also think about what I can do from home.
I am continually astonished by the power of digital EQ, which I'm just a beginner at.
In my same room, which is not large, I have two listening positions. One served by the Fortes, the other by a small pair of monitors combined with the Fortes as subs, using the SHD crossovers. The frequency response of the two sets of speakers is not that different, at least as far as REW can tell.. or I can read... but the sound is so different. The monitors + subs sound very smooth. They don't sound big. But they do sound pretty good.

 

[Doodski]

I will check it out.

I also think about what I can do from home.
I am continually astonished by the power of digital EQ, which I'm just a beginner at.
In my same room, which is not large, I have two listening positions. One served by the Fortes, the other by a small pair of monitors combined with the Fortes as subs, using the SHD crossovers. The frequency response of the two sets of speakers is not that different, at least as far as REW can tell.. or I can read... but the sound is so different. The monitors + subs sound very smooth. They don't sound big. But they do sound pretty good.

O' yeah PEQ is awesome for sure.
That seems to be a pretty cool setup. Unusual and cool.