How much amplifier power is required?

[Willem]

Sure, which is why I said that for small to medium sized rooms 2x100 watt is usually enough. In your case, your Tannoys are also relatively efficient. Here in the Netherlands many people live in larger houses than in Spain, and far less often in apartments, and for us 40+sqm is quite normal (here too, dedicated listening rooms are highly unusual). Our houses are also mostly modern, with much better acoustic isolation from the neighbours. So yes, conditions may vary.
The best solution if you do not want to get in trouble with your neigbours is obviously to opt for small monitor speakers with limited bass output like the Harbeth P3ESR, preferably combined with dsp room eq to avoid bass peaks. But those speakers are usually quite inefficient (83 dB in the case of my little Harbeths).

 

[syswei]

I think the waveform matters too. I remember an article in Audio magazine maybe 30 years ago where they fed the recording of a cowbell through B&W 801s...they needed 2000 WPC to reproduce the square waves at realistic levels, if I recall correctly.

 

[Koeitje]

I think the waveform matters too. I remember an article in Audio magazine maybe 30 years ago where they fed the recording of a cowbell through B&W 801s...they needed 2000 WPC to reproduce the square waves at realistic levels, if I recall correctly.

I read something similar about reproducing the SPL of a grand piano.

 

[Thomas savage]

My advice would be as much clean power as one can afford.

 

[EB1000]

Hi

You can download 4 useful PAn Sonic tracks (including the one in the video) in lossless FLAC format from my dropbox:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wh8nhtnhumv85lz/Pan Sonic.zip?dl=0

 

[Todesengel]

My advice would be as much clean power as one can afford.

That is my conundrum right now. I currently have a pair of Simaudio Moon Rocks 1/2/4kW @ 8/4/2ohm (who knows if it can actually hit 4kW at 2ohm without melting):

https://www.stereophile.com/content/simaudio-moon-rock-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements

But I want the low distortion of the Benchmark! I wish they would make a crazy monoblock with low distortion.

 

[jtwrace]

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/204857-test-voltage-power-speakers.html#post2869380

 

[restorer-john]

My advice would be as much clean power as one can afford.

The amplifier you buy will almost certainly outlast the speakers. They have a nice quiet life, sitting peacefully, just needing the odd clean out with your air compressor for dust. Buy the best you can with tons of power, low THD and solidly made. It will be with you for many years.

Speakers generally will give you 7-10 years before something goes wrong. A driver gets noisy, you blow a pair of tweeters, the roll surround goes rotten, they get knocked over when dancing to Madonna's "like a virgin", or damaged by the removalists moving house after being evicted for too many drunken parties.

Amplifiers and speakers need only match sonically, power disparities are irrelevant as long as you are responsible with the volume control.

 

[Sal1950]

In my opinion and based on years of measurements of amplifiers, I'd say the complete opposite. Whatever power you think you need, double it.

I agree. I was really jamming out on some rock one day and saw the clipping indicators of my L & R amps starting to blink. The music was damn loud but I wouldn't call it ear bleed. Plus I had all 5 speakers running, not just the front 2.
Speaker spec's
Sensitivity: 92 dB/1m/2.83V rms, half space
Nominal impedance: 6 ohms
Minimum impedance: 4 ohms
Amp Specs

 

[Sal1950]

or damaged by the removalists moving house after being evicted for too many drunken parties.

Are you speaking from experience John?

 

[restorer-john]

Are you speaking from experience John?

Nah, I figured Thomas would relate to that.

 

[Sal1950]

Nah, I figured Thomas would relate to that.

Thomas had casters put on the bottoms of all his furniture, etc; to ease and hasten moving. LOL

 

[syswei]

I recently bought a 2x250 watt Yamaha P2500s for just 300 euros. It sounds absolutely fine, and that was to be expected from the excellent AP measurements of its bigger brother, the 2x350 watt P3500s that sold for only 350 euros.

I'd like to check out the measurements you mentioned...what is "AP" please?

 

[Eirikur]

Well you certainly know more about amplifiers than me. But, if that's the case and we all got these golden ears, how come nobody notices/cares? I just measured an audiophile compilation, dynamic range seems to be 14dB. I think we agree in this day and age, that's pretty good dynamic range.

Careful with the "Dynamic Range" numbers: DR calculation tools don't always do transients very well as they gather statistics and are designed to give a single number representative, something like the average of the moving average of each 3sec measurement window.
Another limitation is lumping all frequencies together: your "14dB" may not be evenly spread between the power-hungry bass and the upper frequencies.

Even on a micro scale the calculations may be wrong. For example, the plugin in Foobar2000 doesn't calculate any intersample overs and therefore doesn't show true peak at all - this may not matter too much for the statistics as the end result is still a single number, but missing a peak of +3dB or even +6db does matter to your poweramp!

So: your "14dB" may have even larger dynamics than you think, and a DR3 recording may still have significant dynamic transients on top of the constant onslaught.

Note: if (like me) you also listen to 70s rock this is all a bit moot, I was revisiting my Procol Harum collection and many songs have significant distortion in the recording.

 

[EB1000]

I think we have a winner here, check out this nonsense (scroll to the bottom of the page to see the pictures):


https://audiofederation.com/blog/2012/02/26/ces-2012-ch-precision-magico-speakers-argento-cables


Then read this about the magic pebbles (funny):

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/audiohell/audiohell200306.htm

 

[murraycamp]

"How much amplifier power is required?"

147.3 Watts.

You're welcome.

 

[Frank Dernie]

That is my conundrum right now. I currently have a pair of Simaudio Moon Rocks 1/2/4kW @ 8/4/2ohm (who knows if it can actually hit 4kW at 2ohm without melting):

https://www.stereophile.com/content/simaudio-moon-rock-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements

But I want the low distortion of the Benchmark! I wish they would make a crazy monoblock with low distortion.

Not everybody may agree with me but it would surprise me if the distortion improvement of the Benchmark over your Simaudios would be audible listening to music.

 

[Sal1950]

I'd like to check out the measurements you mentioned...what is "AP" please?

He refers to the Audio Precision analyzer used to make the measurements like Amir uses here. Very expensive BTW

 

[Not Insane]

I ran a bridged crown amp (around 1200 watts) into my 2x12 bass cabinet once at an outdoor gig on Mercer Island. There was no wall behind my bass cab and I was competing with two screaming guitar players. We were playing stranglehold and I was using the chorus. If you know that song, you know the bass is a very constant thing from beginning to end.

Fortunately it was our very last song, because about 3/4 through the song my speaker suddenly got noticeably quieter. I had a feeling I knew what was going on. Yep, a few seconds later the other speaker blew and it was dead.

I took it apart and cut the speaker and spider around the voice cols and pulled them out. The windings were limp and laying over the voice coil like limp, loose spaghetti. This was what is called a "thermal" failure.

But 100 watts is not enough for what I needed those speakers for.

 

[levimax]

I have not seen it mentioned but if you bi-amp your "effective power" before clipping is up to 3 db higher than the rated power of the two amps i.e. two 100 watt amps bi-amped have as much "effective power" as one 400 watt amp. https://sound-au.com/bi-amp.htm ..... another advantage for active systems.