How many on ASR don't runs subs of any kind.? & why.....

[levimax]

I also have a pair of SB-3000s, and while I am generally happy with them, I also found them more challenging to integrate and they simply can not replicate the smooth, "articulate" experience that the PSA subs in my main setup do, even at lower volumes. The latter were quite easy to coax a ruler flat in-room response from (after some work in positioning them), and can then be readily shaped to taste. They truly sound like a fully coherent extension of my main speakers, except with enough headroom to violently shake the walls of the bedroom two stories up, if that's your thing. To be fair, no other subs that I've auditioned have managed to do all of that, either, and I've tried a lot. It's made me question the extent to which CEA-2010 is useful.

Which model PSA?

 

[Oddball]

What part and be direct.

All of it - direct. Just can’t make sense out of it. Apologies it that is not what you wanted to hear.

But than I really don’t feel particularly inclined to discuss so hopefully you will not be as well.

 

[Oddball]

Since I own them I am not going to give up on them. I read up on double bass array but with over 100 ms of GD for the SVS and virtual none for the DIY subs I don't think the timing will work. I did try crossing between the DIY to SVS subs @ 60 Hz but much to my surprise I was getting less output at 30 Hz with 4 subs than 2, that is when I realized that the group delay on the SVS subs was enough to be out of phase @ 30 Hz and was causing cancelation. People say group delay isn't audible which may be the case but it sure can mess up sub integration.

SVS have time delay and phase setting as well, which can often be adjusted with the AVR DSP as well. They might not work well enough if not positioned optimally but that is the whole point.

In general, you would expect to loose some SPL if using 2 subs in double array mode to “cancel” some of the front array irregularities. Subs in the back array are usually in reverse phase mode. Keeping them closer to MLP might help but again that is not 4 corner setup that will boost your SPL.

 

[Jaxjax]

I also have a pair of SB-3000s, and while I am generally happy with them, I also found them more challenging to integrate and they simply can not replicate the smooth, "articulate" experience that the PSA subs in my main setup do, even at lower volumes. The latter were quite easy to coax a ruler flat in-room response from (after some work in positioning them), and can then be readily shaped to taste. They truly sound like a fully coherent extension of my main speakers, except with enough headroom to violently shake the walls of the bedroom two stories up, if that's your thing. To be fair, no other subs that I've auditioned have managed to do all of that, either, and I've tried a lot. It's made me question the extent to which CEA-2010 is useful.

Do you think any of the PSA superiority is the B & C pro driver.?

 

[restorer-john]

This topic has been beaten to death a million times on ASR.

Are you using a subwoofer/subwoofers?

I'm interested to see what percentage of users here use a subwoofer/subwoofers for audio playback. You can list reasons for doing so or not in your reply, along with mains used.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Poll: Do you use a subwoofer? (Explain why/why not)

Just wanted to pick the brains of the ASR crowd on the subject matter.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Subwoofer for music

Hi all Need help for choosing subwoofer for 2 Chanel music. My living room size is 4/3 My setup is ls50 meta speaker Bluesound 2i source, gustard x16 dac And topping pa7 plus as power. Help me choose between svs 1000 pro svs micro 3000 or mybe rel Tzero III Or somthing different Thanks

www.audiosciencereview.com

Studio/Monitor Sub vs HT Sub?

What are the differences between these two kind of subs? I've been looking at some of the studio subwoofers and their price seems incredibly disproportionate to the apparent sound they can produce (compared to HT). Take the Genelec 7350 APM for example: Just under £1000 and you only get a 150W...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Subwoofer suggestions

I was thinking to add a high performing sub to my current setup. My current setup is Salk Silk towers, Rythmik 12 inch sealed subwoofer made by Salk ( thicker cabinet wall and more bracing than Rythmik stock models) and two infinity book shelf speakers as rear surround speakers. I don't use a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

etc. etc.

Google is your friend.

 

[gnarly]

This topic has been beaten to death a million times on ASR.

What hasn't?

 

[MattHooper]

Interested in the thoughts of those who don't run subs in their systems & the why of it. I already get enough data on the reasons to do it but not much on reasons not too.

Well, I’m not going to give you a reason not to.

But I’ll give you the reason I personally don’t use subwoofers.

This was discussed recently other threads.

I have two pairs of floor standing speakers, Thiel 2.7 and Joseph Audio Perspective 2.
Both are spec’d down to around 35 Hz.
I find the depth of the bass and the character of the base to be wonderful with each speaker. That’s why it took so long for me to bother trying subwoofers.

I was put off of subwoofers because I don’t like how they look, I rarely hear well integrated subwoofers in systems, they take up extra floorspace, require extra AC and audio cabling, These days, usually the addition of some sort of software DSP if that’s not built into the sub. And they asked me to play “ amateur speaker designer” by taking an already competent speaker designed by professional, and trying to integrate an entire box of drivers.

I had two JL Audio subs, the JL audio CR1 crossover, and a DSpeaker Dual Core for DSP.

In the end, I decided I wasn’t as good as a speaker designer as Jim Thiel. I liked the sound of my speakers without the subs. And I found that the subwoofers added too little in terms of the impact of the bass extension.

So I happily sold all the subwoofer related gear, and I’m happier with the simpler and cleaner looking (and to me better sounding) set up I have now.

This is truly a case of YMMV. Plenty of people clearly have great experiences adding subwoofers.

 

[holbob]

This topic has been beaten to death a million times on ASR.

What topic? The "class D amps are toys" topic?

 

[Jaxjax]

This topic has been beaten to death a million times on ASR.

Are you using a subwoofer/subwoofers?

I'm interested to see what percentage of users here use a subwoofer/subwoofers for audio playback. You can list reasons for doing so or not in your reply, along with mains used.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Poll: Do you use a subwoofer? (Explain why/why not)

Just wanted to pick the brains of the ASR crowd on the subject matter.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Subwoofer for music

Hi all Need help for choosing subwoofer for 2 Chanel music. My living room size is 4/3 My setup is ls50 meta speaker Bluesound 2i source, gustard x16 dac And topping pa7 plus as power. Help me choose between svs 1000 pro svs micro 3000 or mybe rel Tzero III Or somthing different Thanks

www.audiosciencereview.com

Studio/Monitor Sub vs HT Sub?

What are the differences between these two kind of subs? I've been looking at some of the studio subwoofers and their price seems incredibly disproportionate to the apparent sound they can produce (compared to HT). Take the Genelec 7350 APM for example: Just under £1000 and you only get a 150W...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Subwoofer suggestions

I was thinking to add a high performing sub to my current setup. My current setup is Salk Silk towers, Rythmik 12 inch sealed subwoofer made by Salk ( thicker cabinet wall and more bracing than Rythmik stock models) and two infinity book shelf speakers as rear surround speakers. I don't use a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

etc. etc.

Google is your friend.

1 of those 5 are related to the original post. This was for those who DO NOT run subs & there reasonings for it..

 

[holbob]

I also have never seen before

1 of those 5 are related to the original post. This was for those who DO NOT run subs & there reasonings for it..

1 - aesthetics
2 - My floorstanders go down to 25hz flat in my room, with absurdly low distortion.

1 kinda beats 2 anyway unfortunately. As the wife has got older, I have had to compromise more. She prefers floorstanders, they look nicer. What an intrusive compromise that is!

 

[mj30250]

Which model PSA?

TV2112M

 

[mj30250]

Do you think any of the PSA superiority is the B & C pro driver.?

I'm sure that's a sizable component of it - it has a high damping factor, lots of motor force, and high sensitivity, but is lower in excursion than typical "HT"-centric subs. That said, a pair of them had no problem producing 115dB at 10Hz in my system with room gain, and over 120dB at 10Hz after two more were added. And in the PSA implementation at least, they stay quite clean right up until you reach their limits. When that happens, it's very obvious. They also appear to have a higher dynamic range than others subs I've tried, in that not only can they get wildly loud, they are also clearly heard, but in a delicate fashion, at the lower end of the volume scale, even when reproducing complex (multitone) material. In that sense I feel that they offer superior articulation to the others I've used.

 

[restorer-john]

1 of those 5 are related to the original post. This was for those who DO NOT run subs & there reasonings for it..

The threads all end up the same way. Read them.

You get these (and many more):

Pissing contests. "my mains are so awesome I don't need or even want a subwoofer, you should all be jealous of my system etc"
HT nuts. "I can't imagine any system without subwoofers and you simply aren't getting any enjoyment without at least 3 in your room"
Basement Dwellers. "I have two <insert brand here> 1000W 15" DSP subs under my gaming desk crossed over at 80Hz to my KEF LS-50s and I've never heard a better sound ever."
Purists. "I listen mostly to chamber and classical- a bit of jazz fusion and subwoofers just sound wrong to me. The detached out-of-body bass is annoying"
Old School Guys. "Bass is over-rated, especially with most popular classic music since the 1970s mastered for West Coast sound JBL Century L-100s for vinyl with no content of significance below 80Hz anyway. Example- throws in some Fleetwood Mac, Doors etc."
Aesthetists. "My room is designer perfect and my wife would have my balls if I drag yet another ugly box into the austere room she calls her 'peace and wellness space'.

I've got a pile of subwoofers, none get used perhaps for the last 6 or 7 years. I gave most away to the boys and a few mates who like to drink lots and play AC/DC loud. To me, they are the antithesis of what stereophonic reproduction is all about. I tried to like subs, but I just don't.

 

[Mikig]

In the main system in the cellar I have Infinity IRS Epsilon speakers with crossover woofer management.
I think it is superfluous to put two more subwoofers.

In the small room system, I normally listen at low volume, it is on the floor of the house, my wife would not be happy to hear 30 Hz at 2 in the morning!!

I have tried several times to integrate the subwoofer into my systems, but probably due to my lack of knowledge, given my lack of curiosity towards 2.1 or 2.2 I have never obtained satisfactory results.
Furthermore I should rethink the whole system in terms of space, logistics, cables, and equip myself with some new DSP invention.
By ear it is too difficult to get the calibration between the speakers right.
Therefore, the result obtained has always been low level with an annoying musical performance.

I have 3 complicated H/T preamps, two old Thetas and a Halcro, with the possibility of speaker adjustment and 3 subwoofers, which I have used for the audio video system, but I have always been a bit reluctant to integrate them into the 2-channel system.

 

[Jaxjax]

The threads all end up the same way. Read them.

You get these (and many more):

Pissing contests. "my mains are so awesome I don't need or even want a subwoofer, you should all be jealous of my system etc"
HT nuts. "I can't imagine any system without subwoofers and you simply aren't getting any enjoyment without at least 3 in your room"
Basement Dwellers. "I have two <insert brand here> 1000W 15" DSP subs under my gaming desk crossed over at 80Hz to my KEF LS-50s and I've never heard a better sound ever."
Purists. "I listen mostly to chamber and classical- a bit of jazz fusion and subwoofers just sound wrong to me. The detached out-of-body bass is annoying"
Old School Guys. "Bass is over-rated, especially with most popular classic music since the 1970s mastered for West Coast sound JBL Century L-100s for vinyl with no content of significance below 80Hz anyway. Example- throws in some Fleetwood Mac, Doors etc."
Aesthetists. "My room is designer perfect and my wife would have my balls if I drag yet another ugly box into the austere room she calls her 'peace and wellness space'.

I've got a pile of subwoofers, none get used perhaps for the last 6 or 7 years. I gave most away to the boys and a few mates who like to drink lots and play AC/DC loud. To me, they are the antithesis of what stereophonic reproduction is all about. I tried to like subs, but I just don't.

Thats the funniest sh.. Ive read in a long time & true.
Thanks !!!!!

 

[Jim Creek]

The threads all end up the same way. Read them.

You get these (and many more):



Aesthetists. "My room is designer perfect and my wife would have my balls if I drag yet another ugly box into the austere room she calls her 'peace and wellness space'.

Yup, that resembles me.

 

[Steve Dallas]

I have dual subs in my home theater. Bass response is even and extends to below 10Hz. If I want sub-bass, I listen to music in there.

Although I do sometimes use an audio path that bypasses the subs. Without subs and without any boost from Dirac, F3 is about 33Hz. (This was an early measurement in which I held the mic in my hand during the calibration and results measurements. I have redone it properly but cannot find those measurements. They depict a smoother version of this.)

I do not run subs in my living room nor office.

In the living room, I do have an AVR, so integration is relatively simple, but I have no space for subs. This is what I have in that room without subs. F3 is about 40Hz. No one does any critical listening in that room. It is mostly just background TV and background music with some light gaming. After taking this measurement, I used the AVR's tone controls to turn the bass down a few dB. More than good enough for family stuff.

In my office, I have a stereo DAC and 2 channel amp. The source is a PC with Dirac Standalone. I do not have space for subs and do not want to spend the money on equipment to be able to integrate them. As I listen at reasonable SPLs in that room, a little help from Dirac yields an F3 of about 32Hz.

Subs are great. Just not always necessary in all rooms--especially for the DRC enabled--or for most recorded music.

 

[Short38]

Don’t have subs. Relatively small (14x16x8) listening room. Test cd indicates good response to 30cps. Saint Saens #3 sounds good as well as Bach organ pieces Biggs, Guillou etc.

 

[Adis]

No subs. Had Klipsch SW15 II once.
Lost it, don't know where it is now...

 

[win]

I can't imagine running a serious system without multiple subs and thoughtful bass management

Two bass sources is simply not sufficient in any indoor environment