How many on ASR don't runs subs of any kind.? & why.....

[ferrellms]

Interested in the thoughts of those who don't run subs in their systems & the why of it. I already get enough data on the reasons to do it but not much on reasons not too.

At the volume I listen, I get all the bass all the way down to 30 hz with amazing realism and solidity with Kii 3s. Best bass by far that I have heard in a normal room setup (not home theater). I guess I really don't need one.

 

[jjk1]

My listening room is super small. No sub because of room size low ceiling . 10x10x7
I have a set of smallish sealed monitors. Some day I’ll try different types of speakers. If I want more volume then the room will handle which is almost never, I’ll use headphones.

 

[Zinda]

Interested in the thoughts of those who don't run subs in their systems & the why of it. I already get enough data on the reasons to do it but not much on reasons not too.

Unplugged my sub 15 years ago and never missed it even with AV Speakers. Then made my own speakers from parts of other speakers and was able to put together a dual amp 2 way system that played 24Hz to 24KHz at reference level. Deviation was nearly ruler flat with corrections at 3 points. They didn't look that great but covered the bases with authority at any level and playing any type of modern rock music. Sound was very natural, parts cost just over $1000, time spent tuning was 6 months, time they lasted in a fire, unknown since I wasn't there when 24 of the 28 electrostatic panels melted.

Replaced them with used Martin Logan Aureus, modded by replacing the woofers with 4 new woofers by adding a set on the back panels and now I'm hitting reasonably low tones again. Not earthquake lows, but better than what a sub sounds like since I've never heard one that blends properly and matches levels at all volume settings. That's where they need to add an extra volume control that sets the min and max outputs over the range you select, making sure the sub always stays matched in power as volume changes. They always seem to want center stage when they really only need to add a tiny bit of information (albeit it's important, it's still reasonably tiny in the overall spectrum).

 

[Mort]

I just added 2x 7360a 10" subs to my 8361a monitors and it sounds much better. I'm going for dual 12".

 

[CJPopovich]

That's where they need to add an extra volume control that sets the min and max outputs over the range you select, making sure the sub always stays matched in power as volume changes. They always seem to want center stage when they really only need to add a tiny bit of information (albeit it's important, it's still reasonably tiny in the overall spectrum).

That really doesn't make sense, but I do know what you mean about it seeming like that. It's usually a symptom of poor calibration or integration -it'll sound ok at certain volumes or on certain music and absent or overblown on others. Never had that be anything other than poor implementation. BTW that's not an insult, it's a difficult thing to do.

 

[dfuller]

I don't - I don't need them for extension or headroom, and my room is far too compromised for adding even more low end.

 

[Ground Noise Industries]

I have always had issues with integration with the main speakers, crossover point, slope and room nodes. I have a funky sub setup in the tv room but don't bother with it 95% of the time(Klipsch powered 10" with ESS two-way bookshelf speakers and 1980s Kenwood receiver). It sound fine but there is something just not right.

For my stereo listening I just keep coming back to my tried and true: the KG4s on the bottom and the DCM TF350s on top. Late 80s KG4s and early 1990s DCM time frames (Re-foamed the cones about 5 years ago). I stuff the KG4 tweeter horns with some cotton so I can play the lowers a little louder and I get everything I need from lows to highs. Never liked the KG4 horn tweeters--there is nothing smooth about them(considering reworking the crossover with different tweeter). Running the KG4s with the Rane MA3 and the Rotel RB-850 for the uppers. They blend well without bandwidth limiting either pair--just adjust the levels between them to get the balance I want. I use either the dvd player for CDs or the Tascam DR-40 for digital content. The KG4s go deep enough. The couch is at the other end of the throw rug with listening distance about 9 feet from the speaker fronts. There is a half wall behind the couch and the kitchen extends behind that. Great when cooking.

Most rooms will do fine without a sub if the mains have some low end extension. So many other things to have fun with than working in a sub. I just want to listen and not fidget with the system and placement.

I do use a mixer for my 'preamplifer'. I had a Yamaha C-85 for many, many years until the caps crapped out. I had it recapped and it lasted about another 10 years. Since I need the mixer for my side jobs, I just use my small Yamaha mixer and it works just fine.

 

[Joe852]

I didn't bother hooking the sub back up in one of my systems because it wasn't necessary. I can vary from not enough to too much bass just by adjusting how far the speakers are from the corners. I had an old Infinity Intermezzo 1.8 sub in the system but I can barely tell the difference with it on or not. The bass I really appreciate is not the bottom 10hz. It's having really dynamic and powerful sounding mid and upper bass. When that is really good I don't mind the deepest bass being down a bit.

 

[win]

I will once again reiterate that subs are not for extending your low frequency range or volume but to smooth out room nodes by taking advantage of multiple sound sources. This is relevant up to about 160hz in most rooms.

 

[olds1959special]

I tried to remove my sub, but something was missing, so I just repositioned it further away from the listening position and it made it more transparent. The low pass filter is turned almost all the way down, to about 55hz, since my speakers play down to 44hz.

 

[theREALdotnet]

I will once again reiterate that subs are not for extending your low frequency range or volume but to smooth out room nodes by taking advantage of multiple sound sources.

I reckon they're great for both, that's how I use them.

 

[Ground Noise Industries]

I tried to remove my sub, but something was missing, so I just repositioned it further away from the listening position and it made it more transparent.

I have tried many locations for subs and usually the compromise location is right in the middle of the room where you will trip over it in the middle of the night. LOL. I'm glad you were able to find the sweet spot. I just couldn't live with the sweet spot.

 

[Joe852]

I reckon they're great for both, that's how I use them.

Someon claiming subs aren't for extending bass response when we all know they are in almost all cases, how do you even respond?

 

[win]

Someon claiming subs aren't for extending bass response when we all know they are in almost all cases, how do you even respond?

Obviously they add bass response, but subs are relevant whether you have bookshelves or two massive speakers that go down to 20hz. Even with the latter, your bass response will be poor without additional bass locations.

 

[Ground Noise Industries]

One good thing you can accomplish with subwoofers(20 to 60 Hz) is set up a cardioid pattern output. Creating directional bass frequencies (60 to 250 Hz) can help control the bad behaving nodes in a room. Since most 'subwoofers' often extend their frequency response beyond the traditional 'sub' frequencies, you could certainly use them to reshape the acoustic energy in the room. The big guys(concerts) do it all the time. You can stand behind the stack and talk but you walk to the front you will lose your hearing. Cardioid bass is really quite interesting.

 

[Brent71]

I don't run subs because I really don't need them with my Dunlavy SC-V speakers; they're spec'd at -1.5 dB @ 20 Hz. With room gain 16 Hz organ pedal is no problem in my living room. I've thought about buying a pair of good sealed 12" or 15" subs, but really can't justify the expense.

I have a second pair of SC-V in the basement collecting dust and I've thought of robbing the woofers out of them and building a pair of subs. I need to find a way to determine the internal volume of the woofer enclosure(s) that Dunlavy used. I bought a miniDSP a few years ago that I never used, and have a pair of unused Parasound HCA-1200 II amps sitting in the basement that would be great to drive them.

 

[dlaloum]

I don't run subs because I really don't need them with my Dunlavy SC-V speakers; they're spec'd at -1.5 dB @ 20 Hz. With room gain 16 Hz organ pedal is no problem in my living room. I've thought about buying a pair of good sealed 12" or 15" subs, but really can't justify the expense.

I have a second pair of SC-V in the basement collecting dust and I've thought of robbing the woofers out of them and building a pair of subs. I need to find a way to determine the internal volume of the woofer enclosure(s) that Dunlavy used. I bought a miniDSP a few years ago that I never used, and have a pair of unused Parasound HCA-1200 II amps sitting in the basement that would be great to drive them.

Use them as surround channel - with Bass management (software dependent!)- their woofers will become part of the bass of the overall system....

 

[Brent71]

Use them as surround channel - with Bass management (software dependent!)- their woofers will become part of the bass of the overall system....

My system is 2-channel only, and I don't have enough room for 4 of them in my living room. They're 75" tall, 15" wide, 27" deep, and 330 lbs each.

 

[TimF]

I don't need no stinkin' subs. Too much bass is like too much garlic which covers the delicate flavors.

 

[dlaloum]

My system is 2-channel only, and I don't have enough room for 4 of them in my living room. They're 75" tall, 15" wide, 27" deep, and 330 lbs each.

At one stage, I ran a 4.0 setup using 4 Quad Electrostatic speakers .... it sounded great! But it failed the WAF.... and was ultimately retired in favour of other more "living space friendly" alternatives....