How loud do you like your music?

[Mr. Widget]

This is not a huge surprise. The human auditory system has not changed in the last 100 years.

Though I guess it might have been possible that the higher quality audio we now have would result in a change in preferred listening level. Clearly though - not significantly.

Not a huge surprise, but it is always nice to see confirmation across the decades and from widely varying sources. Just as those BBC engineers decades ago tended to listen at substantially higher levels than the general public, if you go into a contemporary recording studio today, you will notice the much higher playback levels than most of us normally choose at home.

Also it was interesting to see that musicians who were used to hearing live acoustic instruments chose to playback their music at levels that more closely mimic live music.

 

[a2Thompson]

I still think that a critical un-captured component is the background noise. I would guess that most people would gravitate to a more similar average and peak db above background with a minimum of something like +40db above background (using the test laid out in this thread) for the average.

 

[killdozzer]

I read it as that “listening loud can also be damaging.”
It may not translate well.

Yes, it's difficult answering for other people.

Whatever his fine point is, I'm interested. It would be informative to know.

 

[Sokel]

I still think that a critical un-captured component is the background noise. I would guess that most people would gravitate to a more similar average and peak db above background with a minimum of something like +40db above background (using the test laid out in this thread) for the average.

That's true.
At all the charts I posted at this thread noise floor is visible at the 35-45dB ballpark.
ANY move,walk,coffee grab,keys,etc could reach the listening levels with ease as I was watching it(not the peaks though,I have only seen 105-110db at this chart when I banged a door loudly) .
And another.Whenever the work has extended (by the instruments and mix) highs up at the 10-15kHz (comparable to the rest of the spectrum and not as slopped as usual,like the Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra's Scheherazade for example) peaks are registering more (high crest factor of the recording helps too though) .

 

[Soniclife]

Interesting thread, nice try on getting me to listen to Steely Dan, but that's not going to happen . I voted around 80db.

A long while ago I got concerned with how loud I listened so I bought a meter, I didn't really understand the settings on it at the time so I'm guessing I had it in C weighted peak but I'd hit 108db playing things like this on vinyl.

So I've subsequently trained myself to listen quieter, not turn it up to just before the speakers hit their end stops.

I use the volume leveling function in Room, which works surprisingly well, so well that when I close my eyes (so I cannot see the volume setting) and turn up the music till it sounds right I almost always end up on the exact same amp setting, to 0.5db. I then often check the level with my phone, it's usually 80 plus or minus 2, LAeq, my phone is accurate enough for this. I've done this in the car, whilst being driven, and got the same 80db result, I was surprised by that, I thought it was going to be lower. My listening room is quiet, often around 24db A weighted, the car is obviously way higher, I've forgotten how much. I think my brain sets the volume based on the midrange frequencies, what's going on in the low frequencies don't get factored in, unless they are annoyingly wrong.

 

[Sokel]

Pushing things to the extreme a little,I tried to capture the level variation as if it was in a venue,following the track order.

So here's the two last pieces of Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade, Capriccio Espagnole by Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra.
Op.34 -4. Scena e canto gitano and Op.34 -5. Fandango asturiano
There are moments that are seismic at this work,building that crescendo at about 7 min for example,so by this this was my week's loud treat:

 

[Axo1989]

Pushing things to the extreme a little,I tried to capture the level variation as if it was in a venue,following the track order.

So here's the two last pieces of Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade, Capriccio Espagnole by Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra.
Op.34 -4. Scena e canto gitano and Op.34 -5. Fandango asturiano
There are moments that are seismic at this work,building that crescendo at about 7 min for example,so by this this was my week's loud treat:

View attachment 402213

You are not wrong about "seismic" there. Excellent fun.

I caught a live gig by a favourite techno artist yesterday—Swan Meat from Cologne, never expected to see her in Sydney. I prefer her more experimental sets, but this one was hardcore breakbeat (not unlike landing in a corral of stampeding horses, then realising they have gatling guns). Also, quite loud:

*literally louder than I measured those JBL K2 upthread, before giving up. You couldn't (and shouldn't) stay for the whole set (or more than a couple of minutes) without ear protection. So no "realistic concert level" at home for me.

 

[killdozzer]

Interesting thread, nice try on getting me to listen to Steely Dan, but that's not going to happen . I voted around 80db.

A long while ago I got concerned with how loud I listened so I bought a meter, I didn't really understand the settings on it at the time so I'm guessing I had it in C weighted peak but I'd hit 108db playing things like this on vinyl.

So I've subsequently trained myself to listen quieter, not turn it up to just before the speakers hit their end stops.

I use the volume leveling function in Room, which works surprisingly well, so well that when I close my eyes (so I cannot see the volume setting) and turn up the music till it sounds right I almost always end up on the exact same amp setting, to 0.5db. I then often check the level with my phone, it's usually 80 plus or minus 2, LAeq, my phone is accurate enough for this. I've done this in the car, whilst being driven, and got the same 80db result, I was surprised by that, I thought it was going to be lower. My listening room is quiet, often around 24db A weighted, the car is obviously way higher, I've forgotten how much. I think my brain sets the volume based on the midrange frequencies, what's going on in the low frequencies don't get factored in, unless they are annoyingly wrong.

Oh, god no! Whatever you do, don't accuse me for trying to get anyone to listen to Steely Dan. I'd be the last to do that. It was just a well produced sample with no heavy bass, nothing more.

 

[killdozzer]

I see a lot of new members so I hope no one will mind me bumping this to get new data.

Feel free to warn me if I'm breaking any rules.

 

[Ropeburn]

Interesting thread, bumping seems a good idea.

Just tried, with phone (S23U) and that generic "Sound Meter" app. No idea how accurate that is, and how well it captures low bass - that's a significant part of my favourite music - but here goes:

Tested with this track:

...that has rumble, "slam" and "bang" all at once subjectively, also quite compressed, and as such seems very loud all in all.

The above is about comfortable level that's already fun, with physical bass on feet and belly. Much higher wouldn't be comfortable for an hour, not without breaks. Also annoying the neighbours.

When I turn it up towards 90, we're already in full blast party mode with the room shaking which I do only occasionally. Lots of fun though. Without neighbours I'd certainly do it more often, but not for too long. Gets straining on the ears rather fast.

All this is consistent with power readings. Even at "fun" volume, powermeter barely shows anything above idle consumption of amp. Speakers are 90-91dB efficient. Mostly so little, it could just as well be measurement error. 2x2W do a lot. Of course it escalates quickly above that, in so ungodly amounts 2x250W still do make sense occasionally. Hehe.

Edit: turns out I have little idea about weighting and above numbers are more or less false. Z-weighed (bloody amateur) figures in comment below. Turns out I really do like it loud, north of 90dB. Approaching club levels is where the fun starts.

Take care of your ears, friends... good advice that's way easier to give than to follow yourself.

 

[Sokel]

Interesting thread, bumping seems a good idea.

Just tried, with phone (S32U) and that generic "Sound Meter" app. No idea how accurate that is, and how well it captures low bass - that's a significant part of my favourite music - but here goes:

View attachment 546438
Tested with this track:

...that has rumble, "slam" and "bang" all at once subjectively, also quite compressed, and as such seems very loud all in all.

The above is about comfortable level that's already fun, with physical bass on feet and belly. Much higher wouldn't be comfortable for an hour, not without breaks. Also annoying the neighbours.

When I turn it up towards 90, we're already in full blast party mode with the room shaking which I do only occasionally. Lots of fun though. Without neighbours I'd certainly do it more often, but not for too long. Gets straining on the ears rather fast.

If you can change the A-weighting to C-weighting it would read very differently if the song has some good lows.

 

[Ropeburn]

If you can change the A-weighting to C-weighting it would read very differently if the song has some good lows.

Can you recommend a free Android app allowing that? This one doesn't, and others I've tried have the c weighting behind a paywall.

 

[Sokel]

Can you recommend a free Android app allowing that? This one doesn't, and others I've tried have the c weighting behind a paywall.

Decibel X is a nice one, C is locked too but Z (essentially no weighting) is open (click on the curve icon to the right)
I also gives the ability to toggle between Max and Peak, down to the right (just press on it and it changes)

 

[Ropeburn]

Decibel X is a nice one, C is locked too but Z (essentially no weighting) is open (click on the curve icon to the right)
I also gives the ability to toggle between Max and Peak, down to the right (just press on it and it changes)

Haha wow. Z-weighted, same volume as before. Looks like the phone mic does pick up down to at least 40 Hz, not bad lol.

Wouldn't have expected this, only shows I have little idea about weighting. Heh.

Going to change my vote from 80 to 90.

 

[Sokel]

Going to change my vote from 80 to 90.

And that's Max as I see, Peak will be even higher!

 

[Ropeburn]

And that's Max as I see, Peak will be even higher!

It was also interesting to observe how my perception changed with mental state within minutes. The numbers were suddenly "wow" and I got a little excited, while I had been calm before. It seemed way louder than before, exact same settings.

Psychoacoustics are a bitch lol

 

[killdozzer]

Yep, I second the Decibel X. Back when I measured it, I was also surprised to see that when I thought my neighbors would call police, it was only around 80.

Just to point out, since you've noticed how weighting changes the result, initially it was proposed to use A-weight. My reasoning behind it (as flawed as it may be) was that not everyone has subs and not everyone listens to bass heavy music. I specifically pointed out that (a rather boring, but clean and well recorded) a sample song I proposed wasn't bass heavy.

I had an agenda behind this, but collecting data has some value on its own. The point I was trying to make is that we obsess way too much about our amps being clean and stable and THD free up to 100w/ch into 8 and at least 180w/ch into 4ohm and so on, with THD of <0.09. While it's very often true we use first couple of watts tops (having in mind mid-size listening rooms, low sensitivity speakers, 2.0 stereo, 9 feet from the speakers, two speakers in the room, some wall reinforcement and the fact that most of the results fall into 75-85 dB SPL).

LATER EDIT: Oh, might I add, even 85 dB is a single album for me, like 45-60min. listening and then it's enough. That's why I initially asked for members to state SPL levels for the duration of an hour.

 

[Ropeburn]

Yep, I second the Decibel X. Back when I measured it, I was also surprised to see that when I thought my neighbors would call police, it was only around 80.

Just to point out, since you've noticed how weighting changes the result, initially it was proposed to use A-weight. My reasoning behind it (as flawed as it may be) was that not everyone has subs and not everyone listens to bass heavy music. I specifically pointed out that (a rather boring, but clean and well recorded) a sample song I proposed wasn't bass heavy.

I had an agenda behind this, but collecting data has some value on its own. The point I was trying to make is that we obsess way too much about our amps being clean and stable and THD free up to 100w/ch into 8 and at least 180w/ch into 4ohm and so on, with THD of <0.09. While it's very often true we use first couple of watts tops (having in mind mid-size listening rooms, low sensitivity speakers, 2.0 stereo, 9 feet from the speakers, two speakers in the room, some wall reinforcement and the fact that most of the results fall into 75-85 dB SPL).

LATER EDIT: Oh, might I add, even 85 dB is a single album for me, like 45-60min. listening and then it's enough. That's why I initially asked for members to state SPL levels for the duration of an hour.

Yeah I wondered about the bass (or lack of) suggestion. A lot of people like powerful and "fun" music of all coleur, that without big bass is basically unthinkable. Not everyone is exclusively into softest jazz or harmless piano music... I'm certainly not. Even the more laid back and relaxed tracks I like do have good bass.

Anyway, above levels are really the upper end of comfort for me. After an hour it's enough as well. Already unhealthy if you look at it soberly, but what can you do? I live in a constant state of conflict between ear health and "proper music enjoyment". I need power and fun! And good electronic dance music simply doesn't work at low volumes, naturally.

 

[steve59]

When I was in the field with generator, air compressor, saw's & nail guns firing all day, dropping lumber, yelling back and forth. I'd come home and 96 db with 104 peaks was normal for me. Now after 5 years of retirement 90 db with 94-96 peaks and only those old numbers when an old favorite comes into the mix.

 

[Robbo99999]

My understanding is that A-weighting is useful in working out how loud something sounds subjectively, and is also a useful metric to use to determine hearing damage effects, whereas Z-weighting (which is no weighting) could be useful to work out things like stress on speakers at different frequencies (especially the bass).