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How is your dream speaker like?

Matias

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Based on this interesting thread about dream DACs, I decided to make a similar one for speakers, as I was thinking about this earlier today.

So how would your dream speaker be like?

Since dreaming is still free :), my ideal speaker is more like a system which I describe below. Let me know what you would change and why?


Design goals
1. Full range in a single enclosure. As in 20Hz or less up to 40+ kHz all in a single tower speaker.

2. Point source configuration. D'Appolito or coax configurations. I like the idea back-to-back, vibration canceling, side firing woofers of the Vivid Giyas or KEF Blades.

3. Active and digital. With a center control box with the usual digital inputs sending digital audio to both speakers by cable.

4. Time aligned stepped response. Some debate whether this is noticeable, I once heard a Goldmund demo switching on/off and it was clearly noticeable to me.

5. Wide and smooth horizontal dispersion. Some would argue that narrow lateral dispersion is preferable, this is debateable, I still would choose wide.

6. Narrow and smooth vertical dispersion. Contrary to side dispersion, I see no point in wide vertical dispersion, as stereo is supposed to be left and right.



Implementation
Now this is where the fun part begins, as it kind of combines everything we measure and discuss here in ASR. :)

1, 2, 5: I guess the ideal enclosure would look like a KEF Blade, sealed for better woofer transients, internally sealed for each band. The electronics would be fixed behind, isolated from the driver's air pressure and cabinet vibrations, and designed to be easily user replaceable (screws and plugs, for upgrades or swapping defective modules). Since it is active and digital, the bass response can be extended but with a maximum power limiting to avoid distortion and damage (if I keep turning the volume up it limits the bass addition, and further it is also soft limited to 1% THD per driver factory measured).

3. Control box with USB, Bluetooth, Wifi, SFP cage (for easy choice of ethernet or optical network), AES-EBU and BNC/RCA SPDIF coax inputs. USB input also for external drive in order to play music directly, as well as internet streaming. Mic input and calibrated microphone for digital room correction. Phone app for choosing house curves (4 preset based on the usual ones, or input my custom house curve). Output to speakers by something robust like AES-EBU with 24/192 or more if possible.

Single IEC power input on each speaker with auto-sensing voltage 100-240V. Amplification would be the highest performing class D (Purifi Eigentakt, Hypex NCore) on all drivers, one for each driver. Gain stages optimized for highest SINAD on all volumes (variable gain possibly). The DACs of each frequency band with low noise floor like -150dB and distortion spikes below -120dB FS on 20 Hz to 20 kHz.

4. Time alignment I understand is trivial to implement with digital and active speakers, so just add an on/off or variable alignment on the app for fun. :)

6. I don't recall how the UniQ coax is on the vertical axis, but maybe combine it with some sort of Dynaudio Confidence waveguide to limit vertical dispersion?


Yes, it would be expensive. Very expensive. Like dozens of thousands of USD. But it would perform like no other.

Maybe another model using a bookshelf enclosure, with similar design goals and implementation, but obviously with lower bass extension and bass SPL (1+1 side woofers). But add 2 pairs of RCA and XLR outputs from the control box for dual subwoofers and add the subwoofer to the room EQ features (cutoff, PEQ, etc).

@jackocleebrown @Bruno Putzeys how about that?

KEF Blade
kef blade.jpg


Dynaudio Confidence waveguide detail
dynaudio confidence.jpg
 
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Matias

Matias

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Loudness control, like Audyssey’s Dynamic EQ.

Capable of at least 105dB at the MLP, as I watch a lot of movies.

I don’t care about full range as I’d use subs, but I’d want in-room roll-off below 60Hz.
Your speakers would be the bookshelf version then.
Good one: loudness control could be built into the control box and set up via mic and app.
 
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Matias

Matias

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Probably make it a 4 way too so you don't have the side firing woofers playing the low mids...
Yes, maybe the 2+2 woofers on the sides as the Blade, but with 1+1 subwoofers more in the lower part of the enclosure for the 4th way? Good idea.
 

MZKM

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Your speakers would be the bookshelf version then.
Good one: loudness control could be built into the control box and set up via mic and app.
Hi-FiCompass has a post on a passive DIY speaker using BlieSMa tweeters (using a custom waveguide) and Purifi woofers, including force cancelling side firing Purifi woofers. Very impressive:
https://hificompass.com/en/projects/2-way-systems/puri-bliss-bewg
PuriBliss-BeWg-SPL-frequency-response%2C-L%3D1m%2C-H%3D840mm%2C-MT-axis%2C-500ms-window%2C-smoothing-1-6-oct.png

Not sure where his measurement stops being anechoic, I guess ~700Hz.

It is low sensitivity, but the drivers can handle a lot of wattage.
 
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maverickronin

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Yes, maybe the 2+2 woofers on the sides as the Blade, but with 1+1 subwoofers more in the lower part of the enclosure for the 4th way? Good idea.

I think you'd need the extra low-mids on the front (mid-coax-mid?), at least assuming these weird 90 degree off axis peaks are cause by the woofers being crossed too high.

fW703Jt.jpg


Blade 2 from Stereophile.

Maybe they're from something else instead
 
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Matias

Matias

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I think you'd need the extra low-mids on the front (mid-coax-mid?), at least assuming these weird 90 degree off axis peaks are cause by the woofers being crossed too high.

fW703Jt.jpg


Blade 2 from Stereophile.

Maybe they're from something else instead
Agreed. But with 1+1 subwoofers on the sides the woofers can be smaller, maybe it would help with the dispersion integration.
 
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Matias

Matias

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Kii Three checks many of those boxes, including the BXT bass expansion. Missing is the point source design and room correction features though.
 

Ron Texas

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Goldenear Triton Reference and 1R have everything except an active crossover throughout. I suppose you could mod a pair if it absolutely has to be active, but I'm not sure it would be any better than using EQ.
 
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Kii Three checks many of those boxes, including the BXT bass expansion. Missing is the point source design and room correction features though.

How would one know, no phase response, group delay or frequency response on their website as far as I can see. Maybe they can't afford an NFS considering how many of their units ship to celebrity musicians for advertising.
 
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Matias

Matias

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How would one know, no phase response, group delay or frequency response on their website as far as I can see. Maybe they can't afford an NFS considering how many of their units ship to celebrity musicians for advertising.
Agreed, they should provide all measurements. Instead we can check Stereophile's measurements.
 
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Matias

Matias

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Goldenear Triton Reference and 1R have everything except an active crossover throughout. I suppose you could mod a pair if it absolutely has to be active, but I'm not sure it would be any better than using EQ.
Enclosure design choices are close, including active subwoofer, but stopped short on the active, digital and DSP side.
 

Ron Texas

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Enclosure design choices are close, including active subwoofer, but stopped short on the active, digital and DSP side.

I don't know of anyone who makes what you are wishing for, so you will have to build it. Another close, but missing one characteristic, would be a pair of larger Genelec's and either skip or add subs. I don't see anything magic about a single enclosure. Besides, multiple subs can be placed to outperform a pair of large single enclosure speakers at the low end.

https://www.genelec.com/music-studio/8361a-w371a-stereo-system

You can draw up any set of specifications, but implementation is more important. This looks more like a mental exercise to me than a shopping spree.
 
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Matias

Matias

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I don't know of anyone who makes what you are wishing for, so you will have to build it. Another close, but missing one characteristic, would be a pair of larger Genelec's and either skip or add subs. I don't see anything magic about a single enclosure. Besides, multiple subs can be placed to outperform a pair of large single enclosure speakers at the low end.

https://www.genelec.com/music-studio/8361a-w371a-stereo-system

You can draw up any set of specifications, but implementation is more important. This looks more like a mental exercise to me than a shopping spree.
Yes, it is just a mental exercise, maybe inspiration for manufacturers.
Indeed the Genelecs are close, maybe the subwoofer could go lower and the control box is missing.
Many are close, none check all the boxes though.
 

Cahudson42

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My dream speaker already exists and I have it!

HE400i
 

gene_stl

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My 1977 implementation. I would have built a JBL four way system (as my box building pal did subsequently) But I was very intrigued with the Yamaha Be domes. I took a flyer on them and then Martin Collums confirmed my guess as has Dr. Toole.

Everything was bought wholesale because I was in the biz. Even at that the audio components , particle board (80 lb density) and Exxon Nevamar
laminate cost $5,000 US dollars when a dollar was still a dollar (well maybe 0.75). They took about eight months of one or two evenings a week.
They guy that helped me with the boxes became my BFF as the kids say. After we finished mine he built the all JBL version

077 tweeter, 375 driver with slant plate horn, LE10 mid base coupler , LE15 and PR 15. I don't think JBL quite had a four way system at that time. Adding the mid bass coupler was our innovation. He was very up to date on everything JBL whether pro or residential. But in 1978 their proline was not as massive and gigantic as it is now. Their S8R system was about the same minus the mid bass LE10.
Philip.jpg

Above is the only known picture of his system in the background. There is a super tweeter sitting on top but its just there for fun. He built his boxes as well as mine to JBL factory quality levels although we used Exxon Nevamar (upscale Formica) instead of wood veneers. His PR15 was on the back. He only tri amped it rather than quad amping. The 077 and 375 were crossed at 12 db/octave. I forget the exact frequency but something appropriate.


The Pioneer Series 20 (Elite) D-23 crossover is what made it (ie my four way system)possible. I think Frank used a Nikko three way (iirc)

We did consider rounding the cabinet edges but decided that it probably was not audible. (Yes I know it's measureable and simulatable but I doubt that you could detect it in ABX testing. That is just an opinion.

There are internal braces and also a 1+ cu ft sub enclosure for the 10 inch.

I am a firm believer in four ways and multi amping. I don't think a five way is too extreme either. I have considered adding a super tweeter but being almost 70 it would be a waste.

They still sound great to my aging ears. It was a great creative and physical effort. You can imagine what those boxes weigh. We built them in a third floor studio and wood schop and carried them down a long straight flights of stairs with one landing (but no rest). We did that before loading all the drivers so they only weighed two or three hundred pounds. We were not yet thirty and had not yet discovered back pain.


https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/greetings-from-st-louis.7922/


https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/greetings-from-st-louis.4877/
some pix.

I consider them to be one of my proudest accomplishments. It can do a frightening simulation of an earthquake. Both systems sounded great, way better than anything else we ever ran across. Even at high end stores and homes. Yes we were biased and proud of them.

I took some of my favorite CDs to AXPONA last year and listed to several zillion dollar systems and didn't hear anything new.
 
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