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How important is having a matching center channel and how do we know?

warthor

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I recently replaced my Klipsch Reference front L and R speakers with the KEF R series. I didn't replace the center channel, though. I could not bring myself to spend so money much on a center channel that scored so poorly on the preference score metric (KEF R2C, $1300, preference score 4.2). I plan on replacing the center channel with one that scores more highly on the preference score compared to the KEF R2C, but for far less money (e.g., Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 UC52 [5.0] or infinity 263rc [4.7]). So my question is how much does timbre matching matter for the center channel (and how do we know)? For example, would listeners prefer a center channel that doesn't match the L and R but has a higher preference score (or do listeners prefer matching center channels)? It seems to me the effect of having a speaker that is not linear with poorer performance for the center would have some impact on listening quality, but my expertise in speakers is not sufficient to answer such questions. Any input would be appreciated!
 

MarcT

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Well, my center speaker is way different from my front L/R speakers, but nothing bothers me when watching movies. Also, I tried two center speakers that you would think might sound differently, but I couldn't really tell any difference(Wharfedale EVO 4.C and Polk LSiM 706C). Maybe my ears are too old now to tell. The caveat is that I've never had a matching set of the front three speakers, so I have not experienced that yet. But my setup sounds good enough to me. Now, if I ever change out my front L/R speakers to more modern speakers, perhaps I will pick up on a mismatch issue.
 

AudiOhm

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How does the centre speaker sound compared to the new L/R speakers?

If looks matter, you need to match all the speakers in your system.

If the volume seems off, adjust the levels in your processor/receiver etc.

Just enjoy, there are no rules, laws or regulations in audio...

Ohms
 

Sancus

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It's not very well understood. There was a study done in 1998 that showed people strongly dislike when the center dispersion pattern is very different from the L/R(f ex a dipole center and cardioid l/r) but we don't know how much different is OK.

In terms of tonality, the main concern is probably that you don't want voices panning from l/r to center to sound noticeably different. What is noticeable certainly depends on the person.

Anyway, for that combo I would use the Kef Q650C and EQ it into shape. The Elac coaxial is probably OK too. An Infinity 3way seems most likely to be noticeably different.
 
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warthor

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Thanks for your input everyone!

In regard to looks the mismatch is not a huge deal. The front cover is on the center speaker, so any differences are not very salient (both KEF and Klipsch are wood grain finishes, too ... though the KEF finish is nicer...).

After switching speakers I re-measured everything in regard to physical room placement and ran YPOA room correction.

Personally, I have not been able to discern a timbre mismatch or other audio abnormalities. But I literally just installed the new speakers on Saturday. I will try to listen for it when I watch shows tonight. I suspect the instances when the voices pan from center would not be very lengthy in duration so the moments will be fleeting (i.e., how often is someone speaking off screen or way off center?).

I wonder if there is any known content with a lot of panning and switching from center to L or R (in the same way people pick content to hear their subwoofers).
 

sword

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I've used 3 different center speakers with JBL 570 L&R. Couldn't hear much difference while watching movies once the speakers are level matched with proper distances in the AVR. The most difference was at high volume when the center was much smaller than 570's.

Panning of a single isolated sound doesn't really happen on movie content.
 

sword

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Also note that unless you're using an identical center speaker, the same brand center isn't really matching anyway. It has a different driver configuration, cabinet, etc.

If you're only looking at measured speakers, you're missing out on some budget options like the Monoprice 365C or Emotiva C1+.
 

sword

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It's not very well understood. There was a study done in 1998 that showed people strongly dislike when the center dispersion pattern is very different from the L/R(f ex a dipole center and cardioid l/r) but we don't know how much different is OK.

In terms of tonality, the main concern is probably that you don't want voices panning from l/r to center to sound noticeably different. What is noticeable certainly depends on the person.

Anyway, for that combo I would use the Kef Q650C and EQ it into shape. The Elac coaxial is probably OK too. An Infinity 3way seems most likely to be noticeably different.
Well, these 90+ examples would indicate that it's OK. Have you ever tried it?
 

Rick Sykora

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Without having to leave the comfort of ASR, see here:

 

Vict0r

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I think it would make more sense to match the driver size than the brand. My center has smaller drivers than my FL and FR, and eventhough it's from the exact same manufacturer, and even from the exact same product line, the center sounds completely different. It sounds fine, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't call it "A PERFECT MATCH OMG THAT TIMBRE IS SO ON POINT!!", like many people say a brand-matching center delivers. I'm actually actively looking for a center that at least matches the driver size of my towers, to get a more robust center image. Mine currently sounds a bit thin, despite two subwoofers blasting my socks off. :p The crossover can only do so much under 100hz.
 

tecnogadget

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Matching the center channel matters indeed, no questions about it. I guess your doubt is more likely to know how detrimental can it be to not match your center channel.

You can always use a different brand or series for the center channel and EQ them to have a similar or even exact target curve as your mains and get away with murder, it will sound nice and most people wouldn’t know with their eyes closed and just enjoy it. I’ve done this in the past and the results are just like logic would dictate: you can do it, it's not a crime, but of course, it won’t be as good as a great matching center.

After my musings with A brand mains and B brand center…there was something that never convinced me about how voices sounded even the room was fully treated and the center Eq with enough parametric filters to my desired target…I'm sure 99% of my HT attendees would have never complained but Reference accuracy was my goal…the issue with my center wasn’t the mismatch with the mains, it was the inherent design of being MTM (nested array with elevated tweeter, which should be better than standard).

That’s when I upgraded to one of the best centers of that time (circa 2014/15), a KEF R600c coaxial design. Not only did I benefit from an almost perfect In-Room smooth Olive-Toole curve tracking, but It was also best in class vertical+horizontal directivity, moving to different seats didn’t change the overall tonal balance which is awesome. This forced me to later EQ every remaining speaker from the system to mimic the R600c response, which lead me to the next level of performance.

Now I’ve got R3 mains and R2C in a different environment, and I can assure you I can’t complain about a single finch for its performance that both subjectively and objectively. That the R2C didn’t get a high preference score doesn’t mean a thing (at the same time it didn’t score poorly). You can look at the measurements and interpret yourself, the R2C measures pretty flat and smooth, with great directivity glove plots on any axis, and low distortion, I can’t get what else we could ask for a center speaker…Erin’s measurements indeed show a little dip in the midrange, which isn’t that gross nor broad, peaks are much worse from an audibility threshold perspective.
I haven’t been able to reproduce that dip on any of my several In-Room measurements (I even uploaded vertical vs horizontal response of R2C on R3 review). For the 799€ I got them brand new in white gloss, even for the double of the price I couldn’t think of something better that ticks the boxes “coaxial” and "stylish" for my salon, it's also part of the decoration.

To summarize: yes you can use a different center and eq them and will still enjoy your system. But matching your R3’s with a third unit or an R2C or KHT 3001SEc will be magnitudes better (both objectively and by pure logic), and will do justice to your R3’s. Pairing them with any non-coaxial center design would be a waste of mains and logically directivity mismatch.
 
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