How harmful is anti-skating blank disk?

[Balle Clorin]

Antiskate (slightly) affect crosstalk in this test..-where Azimuth was set with antiskate on- , (4runs each case, ), which can be interpreted to mean mean that stylus tilt in groove is affected too.

 

[morillon]

Feedback on these matters—based on long-term use and observations of uneven wear patterns such as those seen during retipping—made the issues quite apparent...
just as, conversely, problems arose from neglecting , forgot, the antiskating , which are complex diam that normally have a fairly long lifespan...
but it accounted for a share of the retippers' business..
;-)
Sorry about the auto translations... but I'm sure you'll grasp the general gist of what I'm saying...
;-)

The +12dB on the Ultimate actually seems like a pretty smart move.

 

[Thomas_A]

Regarding antiskate force. The old studies (Kogen, 1967, Audio):

Conical stylus:
- a blank groove had around 0.2 gf skate force at 2 gf downforce (i.e. about 10%)
- a modulated groove (14 cm/s peak) had around 0.32 gf skate force at 2 gf downforce (i.e. about 16%)

Elliptical stylus:
- a blank groove had around 0.38 gf skate force at 2 gf downforce (i.e. about 19%)
- a modulated groove had around 0.43 gf skate force at 2 gf downforce (i.e. about 22%)

From Ray Parkhursts tests I can also see that a conical induce friction-related resonance less than a MR/ML stylus, meaning that friction is higher using a MR/ML stylus. This is natural since finer stylii are tracing better.

So one conclusion is that 10-15 % may be a too low range for a MR/ML stylus - it may require 20%.

 

[morillon]

Looking at what the Audio-Technica folks were doing back in the early 80s... spheric- linecontact- elliptic
;-)
The real question is how to view the actual levels found on the music records we listen to every day—not just our "test discs"—and how to define real-world testing at practical, usable levels...
And that is essentially the point raised by the likes of Rettiper—or even just by the "average Joe" without any measurements at all.
;-)

 

[Thomas_A]

Looking at what the Audio-Technica folks were doing back in the early 80s... spheric- linecontact- elliptic
;-)
The real question is how to view the actual levels found on the music records we listen to every day—not just our "test discs"—and how to define real-world testing at practical, usable levels...
And that is essentially the point raised by the likes of Rettiper—or even just by the "average Joe" without any measurements at all.
;-)

If the skating force with an MR/ML would vary between 15-20% on various records (or even 10-25%) - setting it at 17.5% would give errors of ±0.05 gf at 2 gf downforce (or ±0.15 gf it varies 10-25%). It would probably not matter much for tracking. The point is to find the correct average for the specific stylus used, and keep records clean, always.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Yes, uneven wear is maybe the worst thing, a one db offset in crosstalk /alignment may not be audible

 

[morillon]

The idea of adopting a sppecific reference level for calibration of antiskating is certainly worth considering... However, the fact remains that level variances and average levels can differ significantly...
Since classical music—in addition to being more demanding—generally utilizes a wider dynamic range, setting a lower reference level for calibration is a valid approach,Something to think about, I suppose...(and not keep the anti-skating settings cranked up for torture/trackability Tests....)

 

[Thomas_A]

The idea of adopting a specific reference level for calibration of antiskating is certainly worth considering... However, the fact remains that level variances and average levels can differ significantly...
Since classical music—in addition to being more demanding—generally utilizes a wider dynamic range, setting a lower reference level for calibration is a valid approach,Something to think about, I suppose...

A silent groove goes somewhere around 10% for a conical and 19% for an elliptical. If a line contact is between you have 14-15% for a silent groove. Setting it to 20% you cover a range of 15-25% with error of ±5%. This is quite small changes in terms of VTF. I think it is more important to damp the resonance peak; friction peaks loads the suspension and cause arm/cartridge to vibrate at resonance. A linear arm will dissipate this energy in vertical resonance, and a radial arm both vertical and lateral.

 

[stormobile]

Do you guys actually hear any difference ? I tried ultimate track in headphones while moving the ant skate weight with a thin stick and unless I moved it way beyond middle point I couldn’t hear any meaningful changes in modulation in the right earphone

 

[Balle Clorin]

As long as it is not mistracking the effect is not obvious . 1db crosstalk change at -30 db is not audible I think, antiskate is more about mistracking and wear

 

[morillon]

audibly, without measurements, and modestly..
. I’ve long stuck to simply applying the minimum force needed to eliminate distortion—for instance, when using the Ultimate’s +12dB setting...
if you want to observe or estimate roughly what that corresponds to...
;-)