How good is the sound in cars really?

[Jim Matthews]

Actually I was mostly just making a joke.

Methinks summbuddy takes this a seriously.

It's like golfers that insist their putters are polished.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Methinks summbuddy takes this a seriously.

It's like golfers that insist their putters are polished.

Methinks people are saying things in this thread multiple times now with having zero knowledge of the topic....and this then leads to spreading misinformation. Too many examples from 41 posts to quote on how much BS has been in this thread.

That is the whole point of this entire forum, to stop the spread of BS. Also coincidentally the whole point of this particular thread original question, A BS meter went off for the OP and he questioned it.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

To anyone that reads this in the future, since I am unwatching this thread. My head is starting to hurt from hitting it against a brick wall.

To get a good soundstage in car, it is fairly cheap. Get some amps and a DSP (dayton dsp-408 works fine for most), learn how to measure your system using a microphone(s), set appropriate crossovers for speakers, time delay appropriately, EQ. Listen to a great sounding system that will be better than a lot of home systems.

I have friends that have spent a few hundred dollars on equipment and a few hours install/tuning and their stuff sounds amazing. I have others that spent thousands on really good speakers and no dsp/tuning and it sounds like hot garbage.

 

[aandres_gm]

Was closed captioning really necessary?
You speak English as God intended.

Did the installation double the value of your Honda?

The CC is automatically generated by YouTube. Although hearing-impaired individuals may not be the target group of a video on car audio, providing accessibility to a broad range of people is probably one of the best aspects of the internet.

 

[pseudoid]

IMHO: "Hi-End Car Audio" is an oxymoron!
QED:
1)"How many speakers did you say it had?"
2)"Internal volume (LxWxH) don't matter!"
3)"Glass is not reflective!"
4)"When did "center stage" become 'left' stage?"
5)"Sounds so much different when I open the windows!"
6)"How do I rotate my ears so that they are facing...Wait! Wait! ... How many speakers did you say it had?"

 

[stevenswall]

Based on a McLaren with B&W diamond tweeters and the upgraded sound package... Car audio isn't "good" but it can be "okay" to "terrible" from what I've heard.

There isn't a large surface where you can put drivers and point them at you with good dispersion and acoustics. Many drivers are pointing into seats. The acoustics vary between insane reflectivity, resonator plastic panels, and absorption.

 

[escksu]

Oh ya, one important thing to note. If you want to upgrade the sound system of your car, you may need a bigger alternator.

 

[jurop]

Was that system available as a part of some regular equipment package? Was it in all Audi 80 Coupès of the 1998 or any following year?

It was a totally custom system, 4way + center channel + subwoofer (without DSP, at the time there were not good enough DPSs for the job) and yes, multiamp, active xover + passive cells + EQ all over the place. The system was invisible from the outside unless carefully looking in selected places. Perhaps I still have some photos of the building somewhere...

 

[jurop]

IMHO: "Hi-End Car Audio" is an oxymoron!
QED:
1)"How many speakers did you say it had?"
2)"Internal volume (LxWxH) don't matter!"
3)"Glass is not reflective!"
4)"When did "center stage" become 'left' stage?"
5)"Sounds so much different when I open the windows!"
6)"How do I rotate my ears so that they are facing...Wait! Wait! ... How many speakers did you say it had?"

1) 19 speakers
2) false, everything had been adjusted in order to tune the rear and front volumes
3) ofcourse this need to be taken in consideration (and exploited as well)
4) we had a quite decent soundstage , just a bit out of focus in the center. By center, I mean the singer was just below the rear mirror, both from driver and passenger seats
5) unfortunately that's true. A bit open influences the bass response, more open also the mid-highs. But at that point you have noise from the outside, so...
6) we optimized everything for a 1.70/1.80m tall driver and passenger in the natural position. The headrest is to be considered part of the system (absorbs rear reflections)

 

[killdozzer]

The system was invisible from the outside unless carefully looking in selected places. Perhaps I still have some photos of the building somewhere...

@jurop Very interesting! I especially appreciate it being invisible. Photos would be a treasure. Thank you.

 

[DanielT]

1) 19 speakers
2) false, everything had been adjusted in order to tune the rear and front volumes
3) ofcourse this need to be taken in consideration (and exploited as well)
4) we had a quite decent soundstage , just a bit out of focus in the center. By center, I mean the singer was just below the rear mirror, both from driver and passenger seats
5) unfortunately that's true. A bit open influences the bass response, more open also the mid-highs. But at that point you have noise from the outside, so...
6) we optimized everything for a 1.70/1.80m tall driver and passenger in the natural position. The headrest is to be considered part of the system (absorbs rear reflections)

Exciting. That system would have been fun to listen to!!

Extra sound insulation in the car? If you did that, did you measure up dB noise level before and after the sound insulation?You may have already told that, in that case I missed it and apologize.

 

[pseudoid]

I don't mean to disrespect professional designers, installers, and hobbyists/enthusiasts or to put them on the defensive, because I know full well what it takes to get 'decent' sound inside a car cabin.
Yet, I hope you understand or at least sympathize w/the original intention of my "IMHO" statement.
You may well consider it a "Devil's Advocate" statement... but from an "experienced" DA's perspective.
I bought my first 'stereo' car deck from JCWhitney for a '72 Triumph TR-6; only because it was the only one that would fit.
I also have had under-dash FM/cassette head-end units (Pioneer separates w/amps under the seats).
Going full-bore, overhead install of an Ampex FM/tape-deck w/8 speakers and 4 amps (home brew w/added 2nd battery) in our Dodge concert Van.
I've installed and [attempted to - - lol] equalize the inside of a few Supras/BMWs/etc, using the Sony XDP-4000X MobileES (EQ/x-over/TA) while fishing FiberOptics inside the cabins and building custom subs, etc. Spent many days in parking lots using a laptop and few instruments like the HP8903B/HP3582A AudioAnalyzers and a motor generator, even before AudioPrecision gear.
I finally gave up my efforts to 'improve the sound' of stock car stereos over a decade ago and just contend w/the oxymoronic gizmos on dashboards!

 

[preload]

Then, out of the blue, I was confronted with the idea that the sound in cars (the factory set up) is the go to listening session for determining quality of sound. And this was quite a robust opinion among my musician friends. Nothing to substantially back it up, but quite robust.

Is it possible that your musician friends are referring to factory car stereos is the true way to test how a recording will sound since it likely represents the environment where most consumers will listen to it (or it's of the quality and tonal balance of the typical playback system?)

I'm sure it's possible to heavily custom build a car stereo install with lots of dsp and compensation for a very difficult and difficult to treat acoustic space and make it sound pretty good. But a stock system with stock speakers in their stock positions compared to a pair of studio monitors in a treated studio room...prob not

 

[ThatM1key]

I throw my 2 cents in about car audio. Its not worth investing hundreds of dollars into car audio. I know, the whole old debate about "if car radios are distracting". I understand people want good audio in there cars but do you really want to focus on hearing every singers breath while watching the road?

Now this gonna go definitely cause more car crashes: https://professional.dolby.com/music/dolby-atmos-for-cars/

 

[LightninBoy]

Thanks to all, once again.

But let me insist; have you ever heard of such a thing? Did it reach you in any form? And I stress; before DSP. Did anyone here ever heard of the idea that the car stereo will reveal most minute shortcomings of your music? That, after playing it in studio, on monitors, you should take it into your car for the final test and that this will reveal some things you can't hear in your studio...

This is precisely the idea I cam across and wanted to double-check my understanding. I don't think there's any truth to it, but I still wanted to make sure.

The two sentences in bold do not relate to one another.

1. Did anyone here ever heard of the idea that the car stereo will reveal most minute shortcomings of your music? No, I've never heard *anybody* make that claim. I'm no pro, but as a hobbyist, I frequently read/listen to pro advice and I've never heard anyone say this.

2. That, after playing it in studio, on monitors, you should take it into your car for the final test and that this will reveal some things you can't hear in your studio... Final test? Maybe. A very important test? *absolutely*, particularly for mainstream music styles. And its not because the car environment is better than the studio ... its because it is worse and you want to know how that heavily compromised but common listening environment will impact the listening experience. You can't hear that in the studio.

All the conversations about high end custom car sound systems (while cool and interesting) misses the point about why you should check a mix in a car. Those custom systems are not the target. The target is your everyday standard car system.

 

[DanielT]

Speaking of car and subwoofer. I got hold of two car subwoofer elements/drivers, dirt cheap anyway. Thought to throw them in two 50 liter seald boxes and test that with my home HiFi. Good x-max on those JBL.Can probably pump well with air. in Really braced box and cheep class d amplifier with shit load of power. Let's see what the neighbors say about it, he he.

I do not know if it will be "high end" but I completely ignore it. The content of this. I will have fun. That is the very purpose of this project. I think you should have the same attitude to car stereo. To have fun. It will be what is given the conditions and the conditions we all know.

Attached sketch of the subwoofer box is not mine but something like that.
19 mm playwood, Really braced, I push the resonances up in frequency and avoid that rubbish. Filter 24 dB , cut 80-100 HZ. That's my thought. Let's see how it turns out. I will DIY them next week.

Edit:
If I put them in the same box and mount them close together as in the picture, it reduces the second tone distortion. An old DIY trick. Disadvantage. It looks too ugly, from a purely aesthetic perspective.

 

[preload]

I throw my 2 cents in about car audio. Its not worth investing hundreds of dollars into car audio. I know, the whole old debate about "if car radios are distracting". I understand people want good audio in there cars but do you really want to focus on hearing every singers breath while watching the road?

Now this gonna go definitely cause more car crashes: https://professional.dolby.com/music/dolby-atmos-for-cars/

Is there evidence to support that better quality car audio can lead to more car accidents?

 

[ThatM1key]

Is there evidence to support that better quality car audio can lead to more car accidents?

To be honest, I was making a prediction/hypothesis.

 

[pseudoid]

Disadvantage. It looks too ugly, from a purely aesthetic perspective.

That is an "advantage": A dear friend totally enjoyed constructing wood 'stuff' but he was not a "detail" person.
And that is why I used to sucker him into few of my DIY car Sub projects. He'd build fugly but BSH stuff:
Functionality over Aesthetics or pure "Form Fits Function" kinda buddy.
My thinking was that you really DO want unattractive customs builds; so as prevent someone lusting after what they see inside the cabin.

 

[BostonJack]

Thanks to all, once again.

But let me insist; have you ever heard of such a thing? Did it reach you in any form? And I stress; before DSP. Did anyone here ever heard of the idea that the car stereo will reveal most minute shortcomings of your music? That, after playing it in studio, on monitors, you should take it into your car for the final test and that this will reveal some things you can't hear in your studio...

This is precisely the idea I cam across and wanted to double-check my understanding. I don't think there's any truth to it, but I still wanted to make sure.

I believe your understanding is flawed. The received wisdom is not "car stereo will reveal most minute shortcomings" but, rather, "car stereo, cheap earbuds, and bluetooth speakers are how most people listen to music, so we better check our work on those."

Are you trolling us?