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How good are new Active speakers compared to older Passive speakers + amps?

Thorskin

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I have 2 setups at home, my living room uses a NADc372 Integrated amp + B&W 602s2 (this is also a part of my Home Theatre setup which is hooked up to a Denon avr 2310 AV amp pre outs and uses a BK xls300 subwoofer + more B&W601s for the rears/center)

and the other (my PC desk setup) with a NAD3130 Integrated amp + B&W601s1 which I have had for many years and have been considering getting something new for a change.

Would getting some new Active speakers for either setups be an upgrade for me if I have around £200-300 to spend? (305P MkII?) and perhaps gettings a minidsp 2x4HD at some point? or should I just keep with what I have?

I dont know if speaker technology has advanced in a way that old speakers and amps can no longer compete?

It definitly seams that way in the Headphone world, the things you can buy now for the money is much better than what it was 15 years ago.
 
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sergeauckland

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I would separate amps and 'speakers.

Amps I don't think have audibly improved since the 1970s, except for more power at lower cost and the ability too drive more extreme loads. An amplifier from the 1970s, say something like the Quad 303, is audibly as good as anything made today within its limitations of power and load. What has definitely improved in the efficiency, with Class D amplifiers, sonically, I don;t think so.

As to loudspeakers, in many respects I think they have gone backwards, as size and looks are now seemingly more important than performance. Yes there are now DSP-based loudspeakers like Genelec or Kii or Dutch and Dutch which can do things that were impossible back when, but as far as passive loudspeakers are concerned, I don't see any great need to replace something good from the past.

S.
 

TheWalkman

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I agree with your assessment, sergauckland. The major difference today, IMHO, is incredible value for money. Let me pontificate.

Back in my high school/ college days of the late Seventies, it took a lot of grass cutting/ after school work to buy an entry level stereo.
That system was 30 to 50 watts, say JVC, attached to some o.k. Advent, JBL or Altec speakers, had a decent Technics or Denon tape deck (normally cassette) and a Technics turntable to listen to your favorite tunes. A set of headphones was necessary to keep the parents happy, of course.

I'd guess all of this was costinng at least $1000 in 1978 dollars. (I think minimum wage in those days was around $2.50 (or less) so let's call it 400 hours or hard labor to get into the game

Today, $500 - $1000 will buy you a nice set of speakers - say some Elacs, Kef's etc. and a decent 50 watt Class D amp. If you have a cellphone (which everyone does whether listening to music or not), so you have a decent music source, add a DAC, put together a raspberry pi music streamer and buy a couple of connectors, you've got a respectable little system that really sounds quite nice. Your phone came with earbuds or buy a decent pair of IEMs for $50. Voila!

So let's assume a minimum wage in the US today averages $10 per hour, for 50 to 100 hours of work, you have a system that would, arguably, sound as good or better than my entry system from the 70's. Though I am a fan of bigger speakers, (I still have my old JBL L65s and they do have great punch), today's entry level system is really a great listening value.

Bottom line: for a college kid willing to put down his x-box controller, pull the ear buds out and see what it's like to sit in front of a stereo cranked up to 7, times are good in terms of audio.

(It scares me when I start to sound like my grandfather but.....)
 

Eetu

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You probably get more bang for the buck in actives in that price range but I wouldn't change from your setup unless it's not working for you. Btw how have you connected the NADs? I recommend running your DAC straight to 'main-in', bypassing the preamp section (if you aren't doing that already)
 

andreasmaaan

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As @sergeauckland says, amps haven't evolved in any significant way since the old days.

Budget active speakers today generally do much better than equivalent-priced passives. It's not due to improvements in driver or cabinet technology, it's simply because the crossovers operate far more effectively than basic passive networks can.

Is that budget of £200-300 per speaker, per pair, or for all four that you're considering replacing?

Based on what measurements I can find online, I believe the JLB 305Ps would probably outperform the old B&Ws on at least a few objective grounds, but I couldn't say whether the upgrade (or side-grade really) would be worth it to you. The 305P, although great for its price, is certainly not a perfect speaker. Whether its flaws or the 601/602's are more to your liking is an impossible question to answer.

Adding something like a miniDSP for bass management is almost certain to give a worthwhile improvement though, IMHO.
 
OP
Thorskin

Thorskin

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I would separate amps and 'speakers.

Amps I don't think have audibly improved since the 1970s, except for more power at lower cost and the ability too drive more extreme loads. An amplifier from the 1970s, say something like the Quad 303, is audibly as good as anything made today within its limitations of power and load. What has definitely improved in the efficiency, with Class D amplifiers, sonically, I don;t think so.

As to loudspeakers, in many respects I think they have gone backwards, as size and looks are now seemingly more important than performance. Yes there are now DSP-based loudspeakers like Genelec or Kii or Dutch and Dutch which can do things that were impossible back when, but as far as passive loudspeakers are concerned, I don't see any great need to replace something good from the past.

S.
I thought this might be the case tbh, these B&W 602/601 are still from a time when B&W made things in the UK,
later the 685 was made in China, not that it matters much. The amps pair very nicely with the B&W and have plenty of power.
I havent heard a new pair of speakers in a very long time so was not sure if things changed.
I think Ill keep what I have for now.


I agree with your assessment, sergauckland. The major difference today, IMHO, is incredible value for money. Let me pontificate.

Back in my high school/ college days of the late Seventies, it took a lot of grass cutting/ after school work to buy an entry level stereo.
That system was 30 to 50 watts, say JVC, attached to some o.k. Advent, JBL or Altec speakers, had a decent Technics or Denon tape deck (normally cassette) and a Technics turntable to listen to your favorite tunes. A set of headphones was necessary to keep the parents happy, of course.

I'd guess all of this was costinng at least $1000 in 1978 dollars. (I think minimum wage in those days was around $2.50 (or less) so let's call it 400 hours or hard labor to get into the game

Today, $500 - $1000 will buy you a nice set of speakers - say some Elacs, Kef's etc. and a decent 50 watt Class D amp. If you have a cellphone (which everyone does whether listening to music or not), so you have a decent music source, add a DAC, put together a raspberry pi music streamer and buy a couple of connectors, you've got a respectable little system that really sounds quite nice. Your phone came with earbuds or buy a decent pair of IEMs for $50. Voila!

So let's assume a minimum wage in the US today averages $10 per hour, for 50 to 100 hours of work, you have a system that would, arguably, sound as good or better than my entry system from the 70's. Though I am a fan of bigger speakers, (I still have my old JBL L65s and they do have great punch), today's entry level system is really a great listening value.

Bottom line: for a college kid willing to put down his x-box controller, pull the ear buds out and see what it's like to sit in front of a stereo cranked up to 7, times are good in terms of audio.

(It scares me when I start to sound like my grandfather but.....)
Those are some really great points and something i had not thought about.
You probably get more bang for the buck in actives in that price range but I wouldn't change from your setup unless it's not working for you. Btw how have you connected the NADs? I recommend running your DAC straight to 'main-in', bypassing the preamp section (if you aren't doing that already)
I dont remember how it is set up actually, id have to have a look, I didnt know you can do that.
As @sergeauckland says, amps haven't evolved in any significant way since the old days.

Budget active speakers today generally do much better than equivalent-priced passives. It's not due to improvements in driver or cabinet technology, it's simply because the crossovers operate far more effectively than basic passive networks can.

Is that budget of £200-300 per speaker, per pair, or for all four that you're considering replacing?

Based on what measurements I can find online, I believe the JLB 305Ps would probably outperform the old B&Ws on at least a few objective grounds, but I couldn't say whether the upgrade (or side-grade really) would be worth it to you. The 305P, although great for its price, is certainly not a perfect speaker. Whether its flaws or the 601/602's are more to your liking is an impossible question to answer.

Adding something like a miniDSP for bass management is almost certain to give a worthwhile improvement though, IMHO.
The budget is £200-300 in total for 2 speakers.
I think I should use that money towards getting the minidsp tbh.
 

Eetu

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I dont remember how it is set up actually, id have to have a look, I didnt know you can do that.

You can just remove the link/bridge (or cable) between pre-out & main-in and instead of connecting the dac to one of the inputs (cd, aux etc.) you can just connect it straight to the main-in. You can then use your dac's volume control or digital volume on pc etc. Just be careful with volume because now the integrated is effectively turned into a power amp. This made an audible improvement on my C 320bee, worth trying on both of your NADs :)
 

andreasmaaan

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The budget is £200-300 in total for 2 speakers.
I think I should use that money towards getting the minidsp tbh.

You could also take gated measurements of your existing speakers and then build in some speaker correction (as well as room correction) with the DSP.
 

Chromatischism

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As to loudspeakers, in many respects I think they have gone backwards, as size and looks are now seemingly more important than performance. Yes there are now DSP-based loudspeakers like Genelec or Kii or Dutch and Dutch which can do things that were impossible back when, but as far as passive loudspeakers are concerned, I don't see any great need to replace something good from the past.
Can't say I agree...driver design and general design knowledge has come a long way.
 

sergeauckland

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Can't say I agree...driver design and general design knowledge has come a long way.
Perhaps so, but the results are no better. Possibly because now, loudspeakers have to be more compromised because of size constraints, or possibly, as in the case of Zu and a few others, manufacturers try for a distinctive sound, not an accurate one.

In the case of passive loudspeakers, Yamaha NS-1000s, Quad ESL63s, KEF 105.2, 104.2, 107, Harbeths, IMFs, older B&W all would pass muster these days for sound, if not appearance.

S.
 

jerryfreak

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i love my dynaudio active monitors and used ones are relatively affordable and they are designed for mixing purposes to sound neutral/transparent so they are a fit for my sound goals (and probably same of many here)

DAC>balanced>monitors is just so elegant
 

Paulz

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Wondering whether the general lifespan differs between actives (due to the amps and such) and actives. Perhaps that's a consideration too.

I seen people mention that as a potential downside to actives but not anything one way or the other.
 

Chromatischism

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Wondering whether the general lifespan differs between actives (due to the amps and such) and actives. Perhaps that's a consideration too.

I seen people mention that as a potential downside to actives but not anything one way or the other.
It is telling that warranties on the electronics tend to be much shorter than the rest of the speaker. I've never seen someone post about a failure, though.
 

Vintage57

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I had my ATC’s for 15 years and narry a blink. I since sold them and I replaced them with active Neumann’s. I believe that professional actives are built to be used.
 

Paulz

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That makes sense. If there was any real difference in how well an active behaves over time, it would be something people talk incessantly about.
 

phoenixdogfan

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I thought this might be the case tbh, these B&W 602/601 are still from a time when B&W made things in the UK,
later the 685 was made in China, not that it matters much. The amps pair very nicely with the B&W and have plenty of power.
I havent heard a new pair of speakers in a very long time so was not sure if things changed.
I think Ill keep what I have for now.



Those are some really great points and something i had not thought about.

I dont remember how it is set up actually, id have to have a look, I didnt know you can do that.

The budget is £200-300 in total for 2 speakers.
I think I should use that money towards getting the minidsp tbh.
If I were you, I would go that route. You have better than decent speakers in your B&Ws and the Denon and Nad electronics. Unless you were willing to spend a small mint to reimagine either or both systems, it makes the most sense to do some sensible tweaks to get the best out of what you already have.

The miniDSP 2 x 4 HD sells for $207 and would be a tool which could add an electronic crossover for your subs (provided you have a powered subwoofer), parametric eq, and for another $200, a full version of Dirac Live, an easy to use, state of the art Room and Speaker correction software.

Personally, if I were you, that's where I would start.
 
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