digicidal
Major Contributor
I've used a pair of their electronic versions at a shooting range before - different application but very effective (and you don't have to remove them to speak at a normal volume in between).
What specifically are you using? I've tried several pairs of the electronic muffs but they don't provide the isolation I was looking for. I spend a lot of time shooting and am anal about protection, I've got enough loss already. I normally use foam plugs and a good pair of regular muffs over them.I've used a pair of their electronic versions at a shooting range before - different application but very effective (and you don't have to remove them to speak at a normal volume in between).
If I could afford them and the house to home them, she wouldn't have input.Huh.. These are so ugly that I wouldn't even bother to ask wife if she would allow them in the house.
Thanks Floyd for access to that info!This discusses amp & speaker matching in some detail - click on the title at the top of the web page.
Well yes, but that is a microphone inches from the instruments. Human vocals can get to 120 db or more with the microphone a couple inches from someone's lips.Jazz band peaks are well over 115 dB. A kick drum can be 140 dB. A trumpet can max at 155 dB.
SPL at listening position depends on distance from band.
Reference: https://www.shure.com/en-US/support...rophone-handle-really-loud-sounds-maximum-spl
This is so different from everything else Magico makes I've assumed it was for Asian markets. They even show Asians in the photos. It still may be very good, but I don't know that it means they think this is the only way to make good speakers.Huh.. These are so ugly that I wouldn't even bother to ask wife if she would allow them in the house.
What specifically are you using? I've tried several pairs of the electronic muffs but they don't provide the isolation I was looking for. I spend a lot of time shooting and am anal about protection, I've got enough loss already. I normally use foam plugs and a good pair of regular muffs over them.
This is so different from everything else Magico makes I've assumed it was for Asian markets. They even show Asians in the photos. It still may be very good, but I don't know that it means they think this is the only way to make good speakers.
All the same subjectivist BS we've heard 10,000 times on almost as many websites.
There are magical properties that we don't yet know how to measure for and that their golden ears can hear.
That is until you turn out the lights, then that claimed magic dust disappears like a line of coke at a AA meeting. LOL
Same ole, same ole, same ole. BLAH
I agree with this comment. Having spent a lifetime listening to all manner of loudspeakers and having designed a few, for the experience, not to get commercial, all I can say is that my interpretation of "dynamic" can be fulfilled by both cones and domes and by horns. Until recently timbral peculiarities of most horns put me off, but the latest examples, such as the JBL Pro M2 are absolutely competitive with the best cone/dome designs such as the Revel Salon2 in terms of sound quality - and this behavior is well described in anechoic spinorama measurements; i.e. evaluating linear distortions. When driven by power amps capable of delivering the necessary power without voltage or current clipping, or protection activation, both delivered the goods in terms of bandwidth and sound levels within prudent hearing conservation levels.
For me, much of the sensation of "dynamics" is delivered by very low frequencies. So I have a seriously capable multiple subwoofer system. Take that away, or tone it down, and things revert to much "smaller" and "ordinary" right away. Reproduction to 20 Hz or below is impressive even if it is not shaking your body, which is is also capable of doing, most often in movies. Many modern music recordings have "organ pedal" frequencies in them, and it is seductive. One wonders if they were heard in the control rooms.
Another factor is directivity and the extent to which the room is energized. Here is where horns often distinguish themselves by putting the listener in a more dominant direct sound field - it is why they are used in professional audio - to address an audience with minimal excitation of the venue. Although at domestic sound levels horns and compression drivers exhibit low distortion, in their professional roles air non-linearity in the throat can generate audible distortion at high sound levels. They found their way into consumer products because of their high efficiency at a time when amplifier power was seriously rationed. That is no longer an issue. I go to live symphonic concerts about a dozen times a year, and it is a very different experience from any stereo rendering of the same music. The real thing is huge, enveloping and crescendos are, to me, "dynamic" even when the sound levels are lower than I can generate at home. The dominant frontal sound of stereo can't do it and turning up the volume doesn't help. A tasteful multichannel upmix is a more satisfying experience, even at moderate sound levels.
Many high quality cone & dome systems have low sensitivity combined with low impedances and these require serious horsepower to generate cinema sound levels - I'm using 800 watts at 4 ohms. Typical receivers lack the power and are not even specified to drive 4 ohms without misbehavior, so mass market audio has understandably been seeking more "dynamics". Yes, when the volume is turned up distortion increases, but one needs to ask where it originates. I have had two instances of misbehaving overload protection circuits in my home systems, and these were in high priced, high power amps that were not happy driving the complex, and sometimes low, impedances that show up in consumer loudspeakers. It was complicated in my situation because I had several amplifiers and several loudspeakers circulating through my life - tracking down the culprit was tricky. This sort of thing must be common in mass market receivers when they are pushed. So, of course at least some of the time the speakers get the blame.
Non-linear distortion can occur at the low-end of the tweeter frequency range. Although much attention is paid to diaphragm materials, it is often the invisible and not discussed motor that really makes an audible difference. Another factor in alleviating this distortion that occurs in an unfortunate frequency range is to employ a shallow waveguide (a.k.a. horn) to increase the directivity and on-axis output in this frequency range. It has the equally important advantage of improving the directivity match at crossover to a midrange. Put a well designed, linear, motor on a tweeter with a waveguide and it matters less what the diaphragm material is - except to the marketing department.
I'm rambling so I will stop. Just to point out that what we perceive as dynamic performance is not simple. Not everything we may describe as "dynamic" has to do with sound level. You may want to look at Part 3 of my series "how to design a home theater" in the companion website to the 3rd edition of my book. It is open access, no need to buy the book. www.routledge.com/cw/toole. This discusses amp & speaker matching in some detail - click on the title at the top of the web page.
I used these (if I remember correctly). A friend who is a much more active shooter (that sounds wrong) owns a couple sets and let me borrow them for a few range days. They made my AR-15 sound about like a .22 with foam plugs does - or about the same as foam+muffs do with 5.56. Still has impact but I'd guess it's down to ~90dB or so. Difficult to be sure since you're psycho-acoustically 'hearing' some impact through your body at the same time. I think due to the later, my .40 Sig sounded almost silent at the indoor range with them. Rather like someone flicking an empty coke can next to my ear. Arms are so much better than shoulders at mitigating recoil - at least up to a point.
Best part is it's fast, like a really good welding mask, but for your ears - the moment the 'crack' is over, you can still hear the brass hit the ground in many cases (unless someone else shoots at that moment at least).
Wish I had more time to shoot these days... but then again, so many ranges here have closed or gone all hollywood on me (sandwiches and machine gun rentals). Sigh.
Well, I think their other models conclusively indicate they don't feel that way - unless they don't think they make good speakers overall. Although at least the naming convention indicates that they might think it's the only way to make the best speakers. I'm sure it's more a case of "this is the best way to lighten a select few wallets of over a half million dollars while making sure they feel like they got a good deal somehow."
You believe that unknown magical properties is a thing, yet you criticize others for belief in magical properties. So which is it? Unknown magical properties or not?
Feel free to present evidence for your magical beliefs and collect your Nobel Prize. Or do your beliefs also fall under the category of unknown “magic dust” and “subjectivist BS”?
View attachment 29252
View attachment 29253
“As I have explained a number of times, when we make missteps, then the credibility of everything we say comes into question.” -amirm
“Our nose better be damn clean as we criticize…”. -amirm
Didn't know about those Etymotic electronic ear plugs. I may need some too for shooting. Like Sal I usually use good foam plugs and ear muffs over those unless no one including me is shooting anything larger than a rimfire. Even that isn't enough if someone is using a rifle with a muzzle brake on it.
There are a several really good electronic ear muffs or shooters. Check various gunsite reviews; I've lost track of the really good ones. My friend has several pair. The Etymotic ear plugs for musicians are good but I need something more robust (more attenuation) for shooting. When I do it, which is rare these days, but a 12 gauge or 44 magnum will generate some noise But, what do I care, I play trumpet!
Not sure what your problem with Sal is, and you've posted something like this several times. Perhaps you might dial it back a few notches?
(Yes, I've been guilty of similar things)
Oh I see now, he's on my ignore list, pay him no attention.Not sure what your problem with Sal is, and you've posted something like this several times. Perhaps you might dial it back a few notches?
(Yes, I've been guilty of similar things)
Well I've some Peltors which should do the trick. I see the Etymotics don't really spec all that much attenuation. The Peltors work really well for grass cutting and have an input so I can feed music from my phone.There are a several really good electronic ear muffs or shooters. Check various gunsite reviews; I've lost track of the really good ones. My friend has several pair. The Etymotic ear plugs for musicians are good but I need something more robust (more attenuation) for shooting. When I do it, which is rare these days, but a 12 gauge or 44 magnum will generate some noise But, what do I care, I play trumpet!
Thanks! At $300 I think I'll stay with the foam plugs + muffs.I used these (if I remember correctly).
25 db, surprised.? Cheap foams are rated at 33dbI see the Etymotics don't really spec all that much attenuation.
Not sure what your problem with Sal is, and you've posted something like this several times. Perhaps you might dial it back a few notches?
(Yes, I've been guilty of similar things)