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How far have ss amps really come in the last twenty years??

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Sal1950

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I have much enjoyed Lexicon's Logic 7 in years past, but it has changed, and I no longer have equipment with it. I am currently able to find satisfaction with the Auro 3D upmixer in my SDP-75. It can be adjusted in "room size" (time domain) and in amplitude of enhancement. No one setting suits all recordings but it is rare that stereo does not benefit from some amount of added envelopment. As always, this is me in my room.
Thanks, my experience has been identical. The Auro upmixer in my Marantz has the same tweaking controls available and finding the right setting for a particular recording can be a PITA, but I do find it mostly worth the effort. On occasion I've even found the Dolby and DTS mixers to work well for casual listening, but if your sitting in the MLP the Auro retains the best frontal image while adding a nice immersive effect.
 

restorer-john

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Good Gawsh! And I thought my speaker addiction was out of control with a mere 5 speakers to play with!
A pair of vintage Canadian Mirage SM-4 two way bookshelves followed me home from the op-shop the other day ($4pr). Yes, they need the woogers* re-rolling, but could you have left them there in good conscience? I didn't think so. :)

*intentional misspelling.
 

Wombat

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A pair of vintage Canadian Mirage SM-4 two way bookshelves followed me home from the op-shop the other day ($4pr). Yes, they need the woogers* re-rolling, but could you have left them there in good conscience? I didn't think so. :)

*intentional misspelling.


;)
 

RichB

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Up to a point, and for many applications, of course one can trade off power and sensitivity. In small rooms the amount of sound power needed is modest. In large venues it can be enormous, so sensitivity is important for two reasons - keeping amplifier power needs reasonable, and keeping loudspeaker voice coils cool. Size is not much of a problem, so high sensitivity works.

My Revel Salon2s have low sensitivity (85 - 86 dB) and low impedance (4 ohms) so for cinema sound levels - which are almost never used - I need about 800 watts at 4 ohms. These days this is easily achieved in stand-alone amps. However, there are comparably good sounding speakers with much reduced power demands, so for domestic needs I would say that sensitivity is not a major factor. But budgets have an influence on one's perspective.

And if you are into single-ended triode amps high sensitivity, and high impedance, are essential:)
I was concerned that the AHB2's 180 WPC (4 Ohm) power of would not be enough coming from the more powerful ATI AT6002 480 WPC.
To get a handle on this, I used pure tones and measured at my listening position which is 10 feet in the 30 foot room.
At 2.83 volts, two Salon2's measured 86 dB with the XMC-1 at volume level -31.
The combination of room gain and two speakers making up for the distance loss.

I have used some test tracks over the years along with amplifier clip indicators to view the to determine what level these amps are clipping. These indicators are not standardized and probably slow to react but they are a good feature.

After normalizing the amplifier gains, the AHB2's clip lights illuminate at around -13, the AT6002 clipped at -6, and the Parasound A21's clipped at -7 (estimated). These are all listening levels that I find uncomfortable.

The Benchmark AHB2's 180 WPC drive my 5.1 system loud enough for my tastes while remaining virtually distortion free.
I suspect that there are amps with similar power or more power that would have significantly more distortion and may have linear distortions as well.

People often ask how much power they need and, apparently, I don't need as much as I thought.
Also, I'll be 60 soon so I have entered hearing preservation mode ;)

- Rich
 

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anmpr1

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Don't let a couple comments get your nose out of joint, I owned La Scala's for 32 years and never would have sold them if they would have fit in my retirement digs. Incredible speakers that do so many things right once you get used to them it's hard to live with anything else. I'm sure your aware of Stereophiles review of them in 2006, Sam fell in love.
http://www.soundhifi.com/klipsch/sam.htm
The Klipsch sound has been the recent rage at Stereophile in general so many preconceptions are changing. We have many horn lovers here, including a few M2 owners and other JBL horns.
Don't know anything about your room but have you tried getting them out of the corners and well into the room? Yes corner placement will help the somewhat weak bass (we both use subs for that) but I kept mine about 5' out and 2+' off the side walls. When aimed at the MLP the imaging was better than anything I've heard. Just something you might try?
Like has been said, I know of no speaker type that doesn't have it's weaknesses, you buy your ticket and take your ride.
1) Joints still intact. Know what you mean. Good advice.

2) The fact that Stereophile is hot on them makes me not like them as much! /sarc

3) If I lived in Windsor Castle I'd move them out into the room. But I just don't have that space. I wish. As it is, I can listen about 18 feet (5.5 meters) back, and that position is adequate. Interestingly, my experience is that most speakers tend to do better away from boundaries. I once had tall Acoustats, and they sounded best at least 3-4 feet from the back wall.

4) Moving Paul Klipsch speakers are not a trivial matter due to their form factor, but a little change does make big differences.

5) Speakers are really the last subjective component. I agree that one has to get what one likes, and can live with.
 

Sergei

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My wife is a professional musician and conductor.
She has absolutely zero interest in hifi sound quality.
When she is researching a piece for a new performance she likes to listen to other interpretations. it used to be buying LPs then CDs but now she can search the internet and listen on her laptop speakers. All the rubato, tempo choices and so forth are easily heard on a youtube video via laptop speakers.
Yes instrumental timbre isn't anywhere near, but that is of little interest to her for planning her own work, nor is the narrow frequency bandwidth.
I also can easily hear what she is looking into on her laptop.
For me enjoying a complete work in the music room accurate timbre and a full frequency range make a big difference, for a musician listening to another's performance not so much IME.
I know a lot of musicians through my wife and not one of them has the least interest in hifi.
Yep. Typical. A general explanation I heard from acoustic musicians: “None of the systems sound like live music to me, so why chase the illusory perfection?”

This is similar to anecdotes about jet fighter pilots surprisingly preferring “boring” cars: even the fastest and best-handling land vehicles can’t approach the sheer dynamic brutality of their air vehicles.
 

Frank Dernie

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Yep. Typical. A general explanation I heard from acoustic musicians: “None of the systems sound like live music to me, so why chase the illusory perfection?”
That may be some musician's point of view (though I doubt it is many) since that quotation is typical of hifi enthusasts sort of way of speaking, not that of any of the many musicians I know.
The ones I know are not equipment fans but music fans and, frankly, fancy kit is not necessary to enjoy music though it does add a small benefit for those who are into it - like me.
 

Blumlein 88

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Yep. Typical. A general explanation I heard from acoustic musicians: “None of the systems sound like live music to me, so why chase the illusory perfection?”

This is similar to anecdotes about jet fighter pilots surprisingly preferring “boring” cars: even the fastest and best-handling land vehicles can’t approach the sheer dynamic brutality of their air vehicles.
In my personal experience they prefer super bikes.
 

Sal1950

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And fast women? :facepalm:

In Australian slang these two terms are interchangeable.:rolleyes:
The Three keys to life,
Faster cars/bikes
Looser women
And more money !!!
 

JJB70

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That may be some musician's point of view (though I doubt it is many) since that quotation is typical of hifi enthusasts sort of way of speaking, not that of any of the many musicians I know.
The ones I know are not equipment fans but music fans and, frankly, fancy kit is not necessary to enjoy music though it does add a small benefit for those who are into it - like me.
A very pertinent view which puts a few things into perspective. I see nothing wrong with audio gear becoming a hobby in itself (we should be in a free world and I know of plenty of less benign past times than spending lots on audio gear) but I think for most it is a tool to facilitate listening enjoyment. If your gear allows you to enjoy music without feeling that it is restricting your enjoyment then it is doing its job. And I really don't think you have to spend much to reach that point. I have listened to music on a few soundbars and thoroughly enjoyed the experience despite that type of speaker not being the darling of audiophiles.
 

DonH56

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digicidal

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Yep. Typical. A general explanation I heard from acoustic musicians: “None of the systems sound like live music to me, so why chase the illusory perfection?”

This is similar to anecdotes about jet fighter pilots surprisingly preferring “boring” cars: even the fastest and best-handling land vehicles can’t approach the sheer dynamic brutality of their air vehicles.
Since I'm neither (jet pilot or pro musician) I'm really looking forward to trading in my over-priced Mark Levinson system for a Bose setup... o_O
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Of course the 'listening room' is changing from an overweight Lexus to a C8 Corvette as well. Although I expect to notice a difference in SQ, I'm confident it won't bother me at all.
 

DonH56

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Why go to extremes? That argument is regularly brought up but there are plenty of good sounding and measuring amplifiers between Mark Levinson (which is actually nowhere near the highest-priced gear these days) and a HTIB solution. I do not think anyone has ever said a $10 1 W amp is going to sound the same as a 1000 W monoblock, though at 0.1 W the little 1 W amp might actually sound better (less noise). And virtually nobody with knowledge of amplifier design and testing is saying "all" amplifiers sound the same driving any load under any conditions AFAIK.

Everybody exaggerates.
 

Sergei

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That may be some musician's point of view (though I doubt it is many) since that quotation is typical of hifi enthusasts sort of way of speaking, not that of any of the many musicians I know.
No, that wasn’t a quotation, but rather an amalgamation of what was communicated, including non-verbal parts such as shrugging shoulders :)
 
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