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How far have ss amps really come in the last twenty years??

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watchnerd

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when is someone going to design the perfect speaker? Probably never. LOL
First they need to invent the perfect microphone to capture the sound without introducing its own colorations or dynamic limitations.

BTW, I found the same thing after owning elecrostats for years...they were missing some dynamic oomph. So I went back to dynamic speakers.

Which horns do you use?
 

Purité Audio

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I have horns I couldn’t say they are more ‘realistic’ unless you consider coloured as more real?
Keith
 

anmpr1

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First they need to invent the perfect microphone to capture the sound without introducing its own colorations or dynamic limitations.

BTW, I found the same thing after owning elecrostats for years...they were missing some dynamic oomph. So I went back to dynamic speakers.

Which horns do you use?
La Scala II. The 'problem' is finding the right spot. You move them a foot, and the sound changes considerably. I have them more or less in a corner, pointed toward the listening area. Either a plus or minus is that they are large and heavy. In my room it's OK, but in a smaller room they are not the speaker you'd probably want. The bass is just OK. Not bad. But not special effects movie bass. That's for sure. And that's a 'small enclosure' horn for you. But mid and highs work well. I use the La Scala full range, with a Klipsch sub crossed over at about 60Hz on a side wall, well away from the main speakers. Benchmark electronics. Sound is pretty good, for me. Not something a lot of people might like. But, then again, they might.

The best situation would be to have half a dozen different loudspeakers you could change out, at the snap of your fingers. :)
 

Krunok

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La Scala II. The 'problem' is finding the right spot. You move them a foot, and the sound changes considerably.
Heh.. That is not really a characteristic of a well sounding speakers. :p

I wonder how their spinorama chart would look like.
 

Wombat

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When Audiophiles critique systems they often criticise the reproduction of brass instruments as strident, blaring, overpowering, fatiguing, etc. Well, that is how they are. No need to go for the upper f frown EQ - just accept it or the fact that your perception is over-sensitised there.

Horns suffer from the same misconception.
 
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anmpr1

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I have horns I couldn’t say they are more ‘realistic’ unless you consider coloured as more real?
Keith
I'm waiting for someone to produce a list of speakers that don't have a color, or sonic signature of their own. Box speaker? Will always sound like a monkey coffin. Electrostatic? Let's talk about SPL limitations, back waves, weird amp requirements. Active speakers with ICE modules that look like something out of a horror movie and cost as much as a Mercedes S sedan? Next. Baffle less speakers (such as the late great Linkwitz) ...those appeal to me, I admit, but I don't have six amplifiers and the necessary woodworking skills needed in order to build it.

Anyone anywhere can criticize any speaker. I get that. All loudspeakers are a tradeoff. I advise anyone to buy what they like, and what they can afford. Loudspeakers are really the last subjective area of audio.
 

Purité Audio

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You are generalising, some box speakers are extremely coloured ZU are probably world champions in this category , but they can be extremely transparent , more transparent than the dipoles/electrostatics/horns I have heard here .
Keith
 

Krunok

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I'm waiting for someone to produce a list of speakers that don't have a color, or sonic signature of their own.
Speakers with good spinorama charts and with decently low distortion actually sound quite similar as long as they are in their SPL comfort zone.
 

Wombat

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You are generalising, some box speakers are extremely coloured ZU are probably world champions in this category , but they can be extremely transparent , more transparent than the dipoles/electrostatics/horns I have heard here .
Keith
Do you realise that you are generalising, based on a limited sample?
 

anmpr1

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Speakers with good spinorama charts and with decently low distortion actually sound quite similar as long as they are in their SPL comfort zone.
So, name me one loudspeaker that is not colored, or that doesn't have a sonic signature of its own? We are not talking amplifiers here. With any speaker, anyone can find fault. You come here and say you don't like my speakers. I admit they aren't for everyone. But for what I'm looking for, I couldn't find anything as satisfactory. I certainly would never claim that they are the bees knees. They work for me. I'm the one that's living with them.

FWIW, in a living room it's easy to tell speakers apart. All speakers. None of this "sounds quite similar as long as certain conditions" are met. Back in the day, in a large open acoustic space (usually concert hall), AR would demo their speakers against 'live' sound. I think Wharfedale was doing it too, across the pond. In a large acoustic space, compared with one or two instruments, few could really tell them apart. In a living room? No contest. You know exactly that you are listening to a loudspeaker.

Another example. It's said that Japanese audiophiles (in general) have different acoustic expectations than Americans (or Europeans). There's an outfit in Japan that refurbs old JBL monitor speakers. Kenrick Sound. 4343, 4345, etc. Beautiful work. Most Americans, brought up on box speakers, speakers exhibiting their unique characteristic sound, don't care much for them. Not me. I dig it, and would own a pair if I had even more living room space, and could afford the shipping. But I'm sure they don't have the 'spinorama' you're looking for.
 

Krunok

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So, name me one loudspeaker that is not colored, or that doesn't have a sonic signature of its own?
I didn't say speakers don't have sonic signature of their own, what I said is that speakers with good spinorama and decent distortion would sound very similar. Instead of generalizing maybe you should take some time and read the article where @mitchco compared KEF LS50 and JBL 4722 in a proper way.

Very interesting and informative read..
 
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March Audio

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I have horns I couldn’t say they are more ‘realistic’ unless you consider coloured as more real?
Keith
I have ignored horns for many years. When in the UK I visited the Bristol hifi show many times. This could well be a generalisation, but all the horns I heard there (I don't remember what examples they were) left me cold as they seemed so spectacularly coloured. I wonder how much the skewed frequency response they obviously had leads to an impression of being dynamic?

So this has made me over the years ignore them as just a "high end" trend. However as mentioned this was a view formed many years ago and I should re-visit.

Does anyone have any horn measurements to look at?
 
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Thomas savage

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Which one is Thomas. My vote is Ginger.
Ok so the ASR spice girls , Keith's definitely ginger spice , il be posh , sal is scarry spice and guess that leaves sporty and baby spice

Any votes for sporty ? Maybe @amirm could of pulled it off a few decades ago, he would have been sure to love the tight lycra.

Baby spice ? @Wombat ? You up for pig tails and a school uniform? Don't lie and say no..
 

March Audio

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First they need to invent the perfect microphone to capture the sound without introducing its own colorations or dynamic limitations.

BTW, I found the same thing after owning elecrostats for years...they were missing some dynamic oomph. So I went back to dynamic speakers.

Which horns do you use?
It's less about the technical capability of the microphone and more about the fact that it doesn't "hear" the way our brain does. The "post processing" .
 

March Audio

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Ok so the ASR spice girls , Keith's definitely ginger spice , il be posh , sal is scarry spice and guess that leaves sporty and baby spice

Any votes for sporty ? Maybe @amirm could of pulled it off a few decades ago, he would have been sure to love the tight lycra.

Baby spice ? @Wombat ? You up for pig tails and a school uniform? Don't lie and say no..
This image immediately came to mind

images (4).jpeg
 

March Audio

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So
Another example. It's said that Japanese audiophiles (in general) have different acoustic expectations than Americans (or Europeans). r.
IIRC Harman studied this and found under controlled blind conditions that this is not actually true.
 
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