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How does it sound ? - Kef LS60 W

subframe

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Very strange advice. You seem to not like the sound of these $7000 KEF compared to a $7000 pair of Genelec. But go on to say they are a good option for better sound for people on a budget.

Neither is budget. Neither is well described by the subjective descriptions here.
As I said, I think they're a good option for people with very low tolerance for actually setting up a system. And I said people 'with a budget', meaning they have some money to spend. That's different than 'on a budget', which usually means they don't have much money to spend.
 

Purité Audio

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Genelecs don’t take much setting up, I don’t recognise your description of the KEFs btw, next time I have some ‘ones here I will directly compare.
Keith
 

subframe

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Genelecs don’t take much setting up, I don’t recognise your description of the KEFs btw, next time I have some ‘ones here I will directly compare.
Keith
Cool, I'd be interested to hear the results of that comparison. I was very surprised at the performance of the KEFs, and really did assume they were EQd poorly until I found out there was a KEF rep in the room. Maybe he had terrible ears!
 
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Tangband

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I had an interesting experience with LS60 this week. For context, I own 8351Bs and have used them in a pro studio, 3 semi-treated home studios and my untreated living room. I also have Devore O93s in my home system, and have heard many many pro and hifi speakers in various environments.

Anyway, I'm setting up a new system for the family room, and when I found the LS60s I was very excited. They are very very appealing - they look nice, offer a simple solution to modern music listening, and come with the legacy of KEF. I found a place nearby to listen to them, and went to check them out, fully intending to buy them. The space was lightly treated, but pretty large - a better listening environment than the average living room, but not as good as a dedicated listening room or studio.

Much to my surprise, they didn't sound very good. Well, the highs actually sounded very good, lovely in fact. The mids however, were quite congested. The midrange lacked clarity on modern electronic and pop tracks, making it difficult to separate sounds where compression and EQ were employed heavily, which is a lot of modern stuff. Reverbs and delay tails were pretty difficult to discern at the level I'd expect for the cost. With jazz, both sax and trumpet sounded hard and boxy. This reflected a general trend towards over-emphasized lower mids. This could be attributed to the room, but was consistent as I walked around the space, so it wasn't room modes specifically causing the problem. So some improvement could be had here with room treatment or EQ, but I'd still be concerned about their ability to resolve layered music

The bass range was rather inconsistent. With rock music, some of the texture was there, but overall lacked weight. That said, what bass there was on the rock recordings I listened to was tight and 'tuneful' as we like to say. Switching to various electronic tracks, the bottom end exploded - suddenly I was swamped in bass. It still sounded pretty good in terms of texture and musicality, but the subbass was just too much. Again, I walked around to room to sniff out modes, but the effect remained the same.

To be honest, I assumed that the speakers had been EQd in some weird way, but was assured that was not the case. There was another guy in the room listening along, and my wife later told me he'd been introduced to her as the dealer's KEF rep. So I assume he thought they sounded somewhat as they were supposed to, or he would have stepped in to help make a sale to an interested customer.

Ultimately, I found the LS60 lacking in too many important ways, and will have to continue my search for a simple system for home. And I am pretty confident in saying that these do not even come close to 8351s or any of the Ones family. Not even close.

I do think these present a really great option for people who are looking for better sound and have a budget, but whose eyes glaze over when we start talking about streamers and preamps and speaker cables. I think we all have friends like that - they ask for recommendations, we do our best to provide simple clear suggestions, but they still get overwhelmed and go back to their $25 bluetooth speaker from Amazon. For them, I think these would be a really wonderful solution - simple, clean, sounds a lot better than what most people have.
Thanks for the listening impression.
My take on this - the LS 60 needs a lot of space and some distance from the sidewalls. It might also be the case that the ls 60 you listened to was just randomly installed in the room, maybe the dealer lacked skills and didnt listen to the bass tunes when he decided the distance between the speakers and the distance from the frontwall ?
Some reviewers also points out that ls 60 needs about +1,5 dB treble to mirror the sound of Genelec 8351 , something that can be done in the speaker settings. This fact also seems true if we look at the available measurements from different sources.

Another question is if the speakers were brand new and hadnt had that 40 hours needed for the driver cones to settle- in my opinion, some differences can be heard in most active speakers after about 40 hours . This is somewhat controversial in this forum, but every dealer and enthusiast I know of ( including me ) are certain there is a difference for the better If the speakers are ”broken in ” and not fresh from the box.
 

subframe

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Great points. The speakers were around 8-10 feet from the side walls, probably 3 feet off the front wall. Ceilings were quite high. The room had light treatment, carpeting and absorptive furniture. They had been in position and in use for at least a couple of weeks, and likely longer, so 'break-in' was not the issue. Perhaps the dealer set them up in a uniquely terrible position, but the rest of the systems in the shop were set up properly, so it wasn't an issue of not knowing how to do so.

To be honest, I really would like to understand if my experience was anomalous, because I think the LS60 would look nicer in my living room than a lot of other options :D
 

Purité Audio

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I have them here and compare them directly to Kii/D&D and I don’t recognise anything you heard, they are extremely even ‘bottom end exploded’!
I thought the 8351s were good you just need to sit really close to them, purely from memory they were tonally closer to Kii than 8C but you can adjust of course.
Keith
 
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Tangband

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Great points. The speakers were around 8-10 feet from the side walls, probably 3 feet off the front wall. Ceilings were quite high. The room had light treatment, carpeting and absorptive furniture. They had been in position and in use for at least a couple of weeks, and likely longer, so 'break-in' was not the issue. Perhaps the dealer set them up in a uniquely terrible position, but the rest of the systems in the shop were set up properly, so it wasn't an issue of not knowing how to do so.

To be honest, I really would like to understand if my experience was anomalous, because I think the LS60 would look nicer in my living room than a lot of other options :D
My guess is that some eq options in the speaker ( maybe -2 dB for bass and + 1.5 dB treble ) would have changed the sound, maybe for the better, and maybe more like the sound you are used to.
 

Marc v E

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I had an interesting experience with LS60 this week. For context, I own 8351Bs and have used them in a pro studio, 3 semi-treated home studios and my untreated living room. I also have Devore O93s in my home system, and have heard many many pro and hifi speakers in various environments.

Anyway, I'm setting up a new system for the family room, and when I found the LS60s I was very excited. They are very very appealing - they look nice, offer a simple solution to modern music listening, and come with the legacy of KEF. I found a place nearby to listen to them, and went to check them out, fully intending to buy them. The space was lightly treated, but pretty large - a better listening environment than the average living room, but not as good as a dedicated listening room or studio.

Much to my surprise, they didn't sound very good. Well, the highs actually sounded very good, lovely in fact. The mids however, were quite congested. The midrange lacked clarity on modern electronic and pop tracks, making it difficult to separate sounds where compression and EQ were employed heavily, which is a lot of modern stuff. Reverbs and delay tails were pretty difficult to discern at the level I'd expect for the cost. With jazz, both sax and trumpet sounded hard and boxy. This reflected a general trend towards over-emphasized lower mids. This could be attributed to the room, but was consistent as I walked around the space, so it wasn't room modes specifically causing the problem. So some improvement could be had here with room treatment or EQ, but I'd still be concerned about their ability to resolve layered music

The bass range was rather inconsistent. With rock music, some of the texture was there, but overall lacked weight. That said, what bass there was on the rock recordings I listened to was tight and 'tuneful' as we like to say. Switching to various electronic tracks, the bottom end exploded - suddenly I was swamped in bass. It still sounded pretty good in terms of texture and musicality, but the subbass was just too much. Again, I walked around to room to sniff out modes, but the effect remained the same.

To be honest, I assumed that the speakers had been EQd in some weird way, but was assured that was not the case. There was another guy in the room listening along, and my wife later told me he'd been introduced to her as the dealer's KEF rep. So I assume he thought they sounded somewhat as they were supposed to, or he would have stepped in to help make a sale to an interested customer.

Ultimately, I found the LS60 lacking in too many important ways, and will have to continue my search for a simple system for home. And I am pretty confident in saying that these do not even come close to 8351s or any of the Ones family. Not even close.

I do think these present a really great option for people who are looking for better sound and have a relatively large budget, but whose eyes glaze over when we start talking about streamers and preamps and speaker cables. I think we all have friends like that - they ask for recommendations, we do our best to provide simple clear suggestions, but they still get overwhelmed and go back to their $25 bluetooth speaker from Amazon. For them, I think these would be a really wonderful solution - simple, clean, sounds a lot better than what most people have.

edit: clarified my comment about budget above.
I heard the Genelec 8351 once for a few hours and thought they were stunning. The details, imaging & tonality are beautiful.

I can imagine if that is your reference, very few speakers will match that.
In fact I know none that match it on all qualities and some that match it on one or two. For instance the kii's are very clean sounding but ime don't have that pinpoint imaging. Another example for me would be the Beolab 90, which have a great tonality and effortless quality to them, but don't match the genelec on clarity and imaging. (They cost a factor 10 more than the Genelecs.)

I don't know what it is exactly about the Genelecs that make them special but would describe their sound as utterly true to the source and showing effortlessly the beauty of great performances or great recordings.
 
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BigFKahuna

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FWIW I really thought the LS60's were for me. I went to demo them along side a pair of R11's, and at that point neither had the impact for me that my Cambridge/Q950's had at home, costing a lot less. Assuming that the room was shite (it was) I went ahead and got the LS60's with a KC62, short story is that at home the difference was more than I could have imagined to my Q950's. I am glad I went against my impression of what I heard at the dealer. As I already had two previous streamer/dac/amp speaker systems, and the space to put them, set up was not a bid deal. Having said that, some in my household are overly impressed with the aesthetics, as I am with the sound quality. Just my un-measured opinion I guess.
 
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Tangband

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FWIW I really thought the LS60's were for me. I went to demo them along side a pair of R11's, and at that point neither had the impact for me that my Cambridge/Q950's had at home, costing a lot less. Assuming that the room was shite (it was) I went ahead and got the LS60's with a KC62, short story is that at home the difference was more than I could have imagined to my Q950's. I am glad I went against my impression of what I heard at the dealer. As I already had two previous streamer/dac/amp speaker systems, and the space to put them, set up was not a bid deal. Having said that, some in my household are overly impressed with the aesthetics, as I am with the sound quality. Just my un-measured opinion I guess.
Thanks for input.
Sometimes the dealers listening rooms have to much damping for 2 channel listening, thus sounding better at home with less damping. And the opposite is also true.

Many hifi dealers have no clue how they install two speakers in a room . As a customer buying very expensive speakers, the soundquality demands are very high, - it should be in the dealers interest to install the products so they sound gorgeous in the store. The industry should be more professional and use their ears more often. Its the ears and the eye impression that sells such expensive products.
 
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Muddywaters

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I need to go back through the thread, but how would integrating multiple subs and room correction be best accomplished with the LS60?
 
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Tangband

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I need to go back through the thread, but how would integrating multiple subs and room correction be best accomplished with the LS60?
You have a sub output on the back of each ls 60 w. Two stereo subwoofers is easy to implement.
 

Purité Audio

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I use Roon, two subs would just plug in and you can adjust them via the app, each sub has line in and out but as to EQ further subs individually…
Keith
 

Danaxus

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I need to go back through the thread, but how would integrating multiple subs and room correction be best accomplished with the LS60?
If you want room correction, you need a device that supports it, such as an AVR. Then, you'd connect your LS60's to the AVR as you would any other speaker. You cab also connect the subs to the AVR, instead of the LS60s.
 

Muddywaters

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I use Roon, two subs would just plug in and you can adjust them via the app, each sub has line in and out but as to EQ further subs individually…
Keith
That’s what I figured thank you. I suppose a minidsp or antimode can’t be integrated without giving up benefits of the built in connectivity. Kef ought to incorporate Dirac with these speakers.
 

Muddywaters

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If you want room correction, you need a device that supports it, such as an AVR. Then, you'd connect your LS60's to the AVR as you would any other speaker. You cab also connect the subs to the AVR, instead of the LS60s.
Thanks, I see that option as I noted above, it’d be even better if Kef offered an optional Dirac upgrade. Eliminating the need for any additional boxes.
 

AudioJester

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I had an interesting experience with LS60 this week. For context, I own 8351Bs and have used them in a pro studio, 3 semi-treated home studios and my untreated living room. I also have Devore O93s in my home system, and have heard many many pro and hifi speakers in various environments.

Anyway, I'm setting up a new system for the family room, and when I found the LS60s I was very excited. They are very very appealing - they look nice, offer a simple solution to modern music listening, and come with the legacy of KEF. I found a place nearby to listen to them, and went to check them out, fully intending to buy them. The space was lightly treated, but pretty large - a better listening environment than the average living room, but not as good as a dedicated listening room or studio.

Much to my surprise, they didn't sound very good. Well, the highs actually sounded very good, lovely in fact. The mids however, were quite congested. The midrange lacked clarity on modern electronic and pop tracks, making it difficult to separate sounds where compression and EQ were employed heavily, which is a lot of modern stuff. Reverbs and delay tails were pretty difficult to discern at the level I'd expect for the cost. With jazz, both sax and trumpet sounded hard and boxy. This reflected a general trend towards over-emphasized lower mids. This could be attributed to the room, but was consistent as I walked around the space, so it wasn't room modes specifically causing the problem. So some improvement could be had here with room treatment or EQ, but I'd still be concerned about their ability to resolve layered music

The bass range was rather inconsistent. With rock music, some of the texture was there, but overall lacked weight. That said, what bass there was on the rock recordings I listened to was tight and 'tuneful' as we like to say. Switching to various electronic tracks, the bottom end exploded - suddenly I was swamped in bass. It still sounded pretty good in terms of texture and musicality, but the subbass was just too much. Again, I walked around to room to sniff out modes, but the effect remained the same.

To be honest, I assumed that the speakers had been EQd in some weird way, but was assured that was not the case. There was another guy in the room listening along, and my wife later told me he'd been introduced to her as the dealer's KEF rep. So I assume he thought they sounded somewhat as they were supposed to, or he would have stepped in to help make a sale to an interested customer.

Ultimately, I found the LS60 lacking in too many important ways, and will have to continue my search for a simple system for home. And I am pretty confident in saying that these do not even come close to 8351s or any of the Ones family. Not even close.

I do think these present a really great option for people who are looking for better sound and have a relatively large budget, but whose eyes glaze over when we start talking about streamers and preamps and speaker cables. I think we all have friends like that - they ask for recommendations, we do our best to provide simple clear suggestions, but they still get overwhelmed and go back to their $25 bluetooth speaker from Amazon. For them, I think these would be a really wonderful solution - simple, clean, sounds a lot better than what most people have.

edit: clarified my comment about budget above.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. In teresting to here comparisons to the Ones. Curious about your thoughts compared to the Devore - now if ever thete was a speaker that sounded congested, boxy, unnatural....
 

Soundstage

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FWIW I really thought the LS60's were for me. I went to demo them along side a pair of R11's, and at that point neither had the impact for me that my Cambridge/Q950's had at home, costing a lot less. Assuming that the room was shite (it was) I went ahead and got the LS60's with a KC62, short story is that at home the difference was more than I could have imagined to my Q950's. I am glad I went against my impression of what I heard at the dealer. As I already had two previous streamer/dac/amp speaker systems, and the space to put them, set up was not a bid deal. Having said that, some in my household are overly impressed with the aesthetics, as I am with the sound quality. Just my un-measured opinion I guess.
Thanks for sharing this.
Could you tell more about how you integrated the sub and how is the result?
 

BigFKahuna

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Thanks for sharing this.
Could you tell more about how you integrated the sub and how is the result?
Honestly just plugged in the recommended settings on the KEF connect app for the KC62 and found that was pretty close to optimal for me. I did up the treble a dB or so, but otherwise the settings in the expert mode were pretty straightforward with good results. I opted for a wired connection to the sub easy and wakes up with the main speaker. Now, my measurements are done with ears rather than electronics, but it works for us!
 

subframe

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts. In teresting to here comparisons to the Ones. Curious about your thoughts compared to the Devore - now if ever thete was a speaker that sounded congested, boxy, unnatural....
Well, I bought the Devores for my home, so it’s unsurprising that I think they sound great. Very balanced throughout the spectrum. They don’t reach the heights of clarity and neutrality of my Genelec’s, but they sound great, which is what I want for home. No boxiness or congestion in the two rooms I’ve heard them in…
 
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