How do you SUBJECTIVELY quantify improvements in sound

[PierreV]

generally reach a compromise within 2 minutes. We should be able to do this with audio.

Compromise? In audio??

Aren't you just out of a particularly nice beer tasting session and a tad optimistic?

 

[JRS]

Compromise? In audio??

Aren't you just out of a particularly nice beer tasting session and a tad optimistic?

But Pierre here we are out to change the world, one electron at a time if need be.

 

[JRS]

You know that tip-of-your-tongue feeling when you can't quite dredge up a word or phrase? It's happening to me more often now. You just fixed at least this instance of it. Thanks!

Hell Hex, being 65 with a dash of Covid brain fuzz, there are times when I can't even find my tongue.

 

[Webninja]

Ever since I discovered REW from this forum, I measure changes in my system. From new speakers to furniture changes.

I subjectively compare updates and do sighted tests if possible (often need to sell the old items before getting new), but a percentage of improvement seems arbitrary, especially one that is so precise as a single digit percentage of improvement.

 

[Spkrdctr]

This may come off as “stereo vs HT” but that is not my intent. Just observation from over the years.

Whats your thoughts? Again, I am 97.31% movies with my system.

What in your system caused the .31%? 97% I can easily see, but the .31% has me wondering........

 

[Killingbeans]

I told myself “if I get a 5-7% increase in sound I would be happy”. Well, that’s exactly what I got, about a 7% increase.

If I started trying to say that a change had led to a 7% improvement in the bass without having measured the before and after response, people would rightly ask me how I had arrived at that number. Likewise , if I said burger A was 7% better than burger B.

That's exactly the first thing that popped in my head when I started reading this thread. "How on earth did OP reach the conclusion that there was a ~7% improvement!?"

When it comes to home theater (HT), it seems like the hometheater youtubers and I are not as picky or particular to hear “lips smack” or the “saliva in a singer’s mouth” during a song. The “sizzle” or “open airiness” of whatever instrument.

Yes, HT people seem, for the most part, to be more capable at keeping their emotions at bay when trying to investigate the shortcomings or characteristics of their playback systems.

I really don't see the point of counting lip smacks or ounces of sizzle, when you can just look at a REW measurement and get a precise picture of the lumps in the frequency responce that are most likely the cause of those specific exaggerations. And instead of talking about (hot) "air", they could find some measurements of the polar response of their speakers and get a feel of the mishmash of reflections that are likely to do favours and/or give ill effects in their particular setup.

That doesn't even account for the many instances where the poetry has no connection to reality whatsoever, and the only thing that's sizzling, is the imagination of the listener.

I understand and believe myself that when listening to certain music you can really hone in on strengths and weaknesses of your system. Certain sounds on recording are more easily revealed and are more apparent in certain musical recordings. Also, are more intimate and reveal more of a speakers/systems ability and/or personality while a movie is more like “talk talk…sing music…boom bang” etc.

Absolutely. Some music will ruthlessly expose a one-trick pony... or highlight it if you're only interested in that one trick.

The idea of trying to quantify improvement as a percentage makes very little sense to me.

Find the specific things that are bothering you, identify the mechanisms that are causing those things (first make sure that you aren't just imagining the things) and then find effective remedies for the things. If they no longer bother you => 100% win

 

[beagleman]

Many audio forums I have been on, tend to very much exaggerate anything to the point it sounds childish and very lacking in any meaning.


"Night and Day difference" anyone?

Implying what exactly? The sound is the opposite, far better, bright and dark or what?

 

[antcollinet]

So, like I said, I'm curious, how do you come to a conclusion that, example, this system that you just heard compared to yours is X amount better? Or, the new front end I got made my system X amount better or worse? How do you convey to someone else the quantitative difference so they understand how much better (or worse) it is/was? I grade most everyday things on a 10 scale like food, drink. 10 being the best burger I have ever had. A whopper would be a 5 or 6. Tastes like a burger. Kinda looks like a burger. Feels like a burger but does not make me say "DAMNNN....THATS A BURGER!!!!

What happens when all your x% improvements, plus your y% starting point add up to more than 100?

 

[BDWoody]

What happens when all your x% improvements, plus your y% starting point add up to more than 100?

Each time the counter spins through 100%, that counts as a 'veil,' and the counter resets to zero.

The one with the most veils collected when they die wins.

 

[Galliardist]

What happens when all your x% improvements, plus your y% starting point add up to more than 100?

You could always do what the reviewer Martin Colloms did, call your scale "open ended" and just keep going. He was in the 130s last time I looked, which was years ago, since I didn't subscribe to the journal he set up after leaving HiFi News (Hi Fi Critic, or whatever it's called).

 

[Deleted member 23982]

i mean, percentages are somewhat good to try explain something is better but you have to put the percentage to something to relate too just "7% improvement" doesnt tell anything

thats why "audiophiles" come up with terms like, blacker black/background, harsh treble, depper bass, mid hump, better soundstage, more soundstage width, better 3d spacing, more clarity/detail etc

those terms above all are "subjectivly" changes to, for example, OPamp-rolling or changing capacitor brands/models without changing the frequency response "directly"

its just silly imo to think the only quantization of sound quality is "db" in certain frequencys.... there is way more to it, im sorry for everyone not getting/hearing that tho

 

[antcollinet]

It is pretty much all bollox.

 

[Killingbeans]

those terms above all are "subjectivly" changes to, for example, OPamp-rolling or changing capacitor brands/models without changing the frequency response "directly"

It changes your expectations and your focus, making you pay attention to things you normally wouldn't. I guess that's something.

its just silly imo to think the only quantization of sound quality is "db" in certain frequencys.... there is way more to it, im sorry for everyone not getting/hearing that tho

When you boil it down to the basics, it's just an amplitude changing over time. There's nothing hidden besides that. How could there be?

All of the changes and differences are measurable. The only discussion worth having is about whether or not these differences are desirable or even audible at all.

 

[Chrispy]

Can't say I've ever tried to apply percentages to changes in gear. I don't try and tell/explain to someone what changes I've made particularly or gear I've bought in terms of what was gained/loss particularly....and a percentage wouldn't be the way I'd go if I did. What would it be a percentage of? How do emotions or subjective opinions have percentages?

I do find annoying people who try to express where they've placed the volume dial in terms of a percentage, particularly one defined in dB.

 

[gks333]

What in your system caused the .31%? 97% I can easily see, but the .31% has me wondering........

Sarcasm caused the .31% mixed with slight humor that has not absorbed well here.

 

[gks333]

What happens when all your x% improvements, plus your y% starting point add up to more than 100?

The percentages will move over time/be consolidated/rationalized due to more experience. As stated before, the percentages are a way to describe to others the perceived change. The percentages are not objective. They are a way of communicating based on ones perspective the perceived amount of change. This seems to be hard to communicate here even with a thread titled "how do you quantify improvements in sound", I left one word out, thats on me.....SUBJECTIVELY. I, for some reason, am unable to edit the title of my post and change it to "How do you SUBJECTIVELY quantify improvements in sound".

 

[Spkrdctr]

The percentages will move over time/be consolidated/rationalized due to more experience. As stated before, the percentages are a way to describe to others the perceived change. The percentages are not objective. They are a way of communicating based on ones perspective the perceived amount of change. This seems to be hard to communicate here even with a thread titled "how do you quantify improvements in sound", I left one word out, thats on me.....SUBJECTIVELY. I, for some reason, am unable to edit the title of my post and change it to "How do you SUBJECTIVELY quantify improvements in sound".

I have heard a rumor. If you donate $1000 to Amir for the web site, a moderator will change the title of the thread for you. Amir probably even accepts cash mailed to him in $100 dollar bills. Just sayin....

 

[Jimbob54]

I have heard a rumor. If you donate $1000 to Amir for the web site, a moderator will change the title of the thread for you. Amir probably even accepts cash mailed to him in $100 dollar bills. Just sayin....

If @gks333 were to slip @AdamG247 $5 he will probably do it. I don't think site rules allow me to say publicly what @BDWoody would require.

 

[AdamG]

The percentages will move over time/be consolidated/rationalized due to more experience. As stated before, the percentages are a way to describe to others the perceived change. The percentages are not objective. They are a way of communicating based on ones perspective the perceived amount of change. This seems to be hard to communicate here even with a thread titled "how do you quantify improvements in sound", I left one word out, thats on me.....SUBJECTIVELY. I, for some reason, am unable to edit the title of my post and change it to "How do you SUBJECTIVELY quantify improvements in sound".

Done!

 

[Jimbob54]

Done!

Can I get a 5% commission on your fee? (times are hard)