How do you hear headphone 'soundstage'

[DualTriode]

For this reason I personally call this 'headstage' and reserve the term soundstage for speakers.

Hello All,

I will go along with "headstage" as well.

Headphones and cocaine "running all around my brain".

I much prefer, even a 6 - 1/2 inch pair of Purifi 2-way speakers (plus sub) a bit further away than near field to any pair of headphones.

It is only the sound of my wife drowning out the speakers at 2:00am, "turn that thing down", that makes me reach for the headphones.

Thanks DT

 

[julian_hughes]

I voted "it depends on the headphone" but I think there's one factor missing from the poll: I get a much better impression of depth if my eyes are closed. I don't think anything is more deadly to the illusion of sound having depth and width than your other primary senses flatly contradicting that. Eyes open and there clearly isn't a large orchestra performing in front of me, just a very messy desk and a monitor and some bookshelves. Eyes closed and I can start to believe it and clearly there are very good cues as to depth/distance as well as left/right. Eyes closed or shut: it's a night and day difference

 

[Weeb Labs]

Disregarding mastering tricks, all content appears to emanate from between the ears. I have listened to many headphones and found them all to be very similar in this regard. So long as the frequency response tracks the target in a smooth manner, I require nothing more.

 

[majingotan]

I voted "it depends on the headphone" but I think there's one factor missing from the poll: I get a much better impression of depth if my eyes are closed. I don't think anything is more deadly to the illusion of sound having depth and width than your other primary senses flatly contradicting that. Eyes open and there clearly isn't a large orchestra performing in front of me, just a very messy desk and a monitor and some bookshelves. Eyes closed and I can start to believe it and clearly there are very good cues as to depth/distance as well as left/right. Eyes closed or shut: it's a night and day difference

As solderdude mentioned, brain and sensory factor/concentration can affect this. For me though, I do not need to close my eyes or focus to hear lateral front to back depth that's clearly distinct from just left and right staging on my Aeon X Open. Most of the time, I do not need to focus on the music since the Aeons themselves pulls me into to the music with its superlative imaging, superlative soundstage, perfect tonality (Harman curve) on many tracks while just browsing the internet along. I believe the Aeons have one of the best price/performance headphones out there subjectively (i.e. TOTL sound for 1/10 of their price subjectively)

I have heard the MrSpeakers AEON open and closed. I much preferred the closed version (the open was too 'warm') but did not get any special spatial qualities.
Only very few people (at least acc to this small poll) get the 3D experience you are getting. I don't think that it is gear related (outside of the headphones) so must be a brain thingy.

The Drop Aeon Open X version has different tuning than the original Aeon Flow Opens btw. Its tuning is very close to the Aeon Noires and the Stealth which is more neutral to slightly bright sounding than warm (closer to Focal Utopia's tonality and certainly brighter than the Focal Clear OG). The Expanse is warmer than Aeon Open X, Stealth and Noires based on sighted A/B

 

[solderdude]

I voted "it depends on the headphone" but I think there's one factor missing from the poll: I get a much better impression of depth if my eyes are closed. I don't think anything is more deadly to the illusion of sound having depth and width than your other primary senses flatly contradicting that. Eyes open and there clearly isn't a large orchestra performing in front of me, just a very messy desk and a monitor and some bookshelves. Eyes closed and I can start to believe it and clearly there are very good cues as to depth/distance as well as left/right. Eyes closed or shut: it's a night and day difference

To me it makes no difference if outside, in a room, eyes open, in the dark or eyes closed. Always the same. But it seems brain related so I would assume with some people closing the eyes or total darkness could help.

0dB SPL is an oddball and is the reference baseline for which they 'set' the audibility threshold at at 1kHz but this is not the same for each individual and depends on factors like time (for the ear to become most senstive), age etc.
0dB SPL is not 'no sound' but set at 20μPa (micro Pascal) pressure.

 

[dasdoing]

I would request a new entry: it depends on the recording.
this one for example gives me clear depth:

the only problem is that the soundstage is "fisheyed" 180 degrees

 

[solderdude]

Still in my head but you can hear a lot of echo and reverb from the room giving the impression it is very spatial.
Poor recording quality as well, just the stereo mic on the camera itself it seems.

 

[pma]

This poll is born out of a 'soundstage / imaging' discussion.
I am just curious how people hear headphone 'soundstage'.

Note this is with 'normal' recordings so NO binaural recordings and without any processing/plug-ins like crossfeed, stereo enhancers and 3D emulators.
Just a plain headphone...

And yes ... some are wider than others but its the placement I wonder about.

Sound image between the ears, somewhat in front, above, after the head etc.

When this is headphone dependent for you please note which headphone does that for you.

How do I perceive headphone imaging? Artificial, unnatural. I do not like it. I use it only in case not to disturb by sound.

 

[pseudoid]

This poll is born out of a 'soundstage / imaging' discussion.
I am just curious how people hear headphone 'soundstage'.
...

Thank you, @solderdude for this post,
It's a great topic and I am eager to learn what audiophiles think about headphones and their resulting experiences/perception thereof.

Unfortunately, I can't vote and I have never been a fan, even using quality headphones and even with binaural recordings.
Listening via headphones tends to not only confuse my sensory connections but tires my brain.
I am especially confused by the question about the localization area inside/within skull (left/right, front/rear, etc.)
I thought the 'projection' usually attempts to portrait the music outside and mostly in a stage in front of the listener.
---------------------------------
EDIT (add): I could not view the Poll Results unless I voted.
So, I voted "I don't care about this aspect" not knowing what that really means.
I can change my vote but I cannot undo it.

 

[Robbo99999]

I would request a new entry: it depends on the recording.
this one for example gives me clear depth:

the only problem is that the soundstage is "fisheyed" 180 degrees

That didn't do much me for me either, I wouldn't describe that as a "soundstage track".

 

[dasdoing]

I hear the room so clearly I can't believe you guys have it in you head.
regular studio pop mixes are in my head though. like Billie Jean I just compared. very annoying, I can't even stand to listen

 

[solderdude]

How do I perceive headphone imaging? Artificial, unnatural. I do not like it. I use it only in case not to disturb by sound.

Have you tried Crossfeed (there are several types, one better than the other).
I have to admit I kind of head to 'learn' to enjoy headphones. I used to be a strictly speaker guy. It wasn't until I was kind of forced to use headphones that I learned to appreciate what it does.
It is not an alternative to speakers for me but rather a different way of listening. Also went the Crossfeed route and with some recordings and headphones it works but I could not find a single satisfactory 'setting' (I made a variable one where I could experiment with many settings) so ended up stock and 'learned' to appreciate headphones for what they are good at (no acoustics that can mess things up, not bothering others and not being bothered)

 

[dasdoing]

there is several software, like the one with the funny name Get Out Of My Head.
I actually think even Windows Sonic for Headphones is much better than unprocessed sound

 

[Robbo99999]

Thank you, @solderdude for this post,
It's a great topic and I am eager to learn what audiophiles think about headphones and their resulting experiences/perception thereof.

Unfortunately, I can't vote and I have never been a fan, even using quality headphones and even with binaural recordings.
Listening via headphones tends to not only confuse my sensory connections but tires my brain.
I am especially confused by the question about the localization area inside/within skull (left/right, front/rear, etc.)
I thought the 'projection' usually attempts to portrait the music outside and mostly in a stage in front of the listener.

Maybe it really it is a brain thing, the ability to take what the headphone gives you and to concoct it into something meaningful. It does sound like people get on with headphones to varying degrees.

 

[solderdude]

Out Of Your Head software is not crossfeed though. It is more or less the opposite and the idea is to get the sound away from the center. It also changes the tonality.
check out demos here.
Ifi also has a special '3D Holographic Sound' circuit.
Not a fan of either 'trickery' but I can see it working well for others.

 

[Robbo99999]

I hear the room so clearly I can't believe you guys have it in you head.
regular studio pop mixes are in my head though. like Billie Jean I just compared. very annoying, I can't even stand to listen

Did you watch the video at the same time? I had my eyes shut, as I didn't want to be influenced by the video. It's very easy to morph what you hear & combine it with the positions of the musicians on the stage, etc.....so it will affect your perceptions of what you hear. (We do that all the time when we watch TV)

 

[dasdoing]

Did you watch the video at the same time? I had my eyes shut, as I didn't want to be influenced by the video. It's very easy to morph what you hear & combine it with the positions of the musicians on the stage, etc.....so it will affect your perceptions of what you hear. (We do that all the time when we watch TV)

I tried both. now I must say that here are two recuring topics overlapping. like in topics where I say that to hear the ambience in the recording in a dead room, I say the same here: you do need a little imagination. the image helps, but even without it you can create that room in your head. this happens automaticly if you are used to a dry room.

it's like a 3d cube on paper. you can see it in 3d, but you can force yourself to see it in 2d, too

 

[solderdude]

I know of 2D pictures that turn in 3D though.

The first time it took me hours to see it and did not believe the guys/gals stating they could easily 'see it' and decribed things that weren't there, at least I could not see.
Once I finally got the 'trick' I could do it in seconds and still can (found some of those books on the attick a while ago again).

Of course this is an optical trick (also a brain thingy) but fun non-the-less.

Google '3D Magic eye' if you have no idea what I am talking about. It was all the rage about 20 years ago.

 

[maverickronin]

Google '3D Magic eye' if you have no idea what I am talking about. It was all the rage about 20 years ago.

I could never get this work.

It's very interesting how different neurotypes perceive these kind of things differently.

 

[dasdoing]

Google '3D Magic eye' if you have no idea what I am talking about. It was all the rage about 20 years ago.

I tried the "easy to see", no clue what I am suposed to see lol.
And I think that is important...Depending on the sound of the conga I can imagine what room I suposed to see.....at least more or less.
like when I see the 3d cube....I know it is suposed to be a cube....so I can see it.....but than again I can also see a hexagon