How do you connect your devices to a receiver with integrated DAC these days?

[Des Esseintes]

Hi,

I've only ever used old school stereo systems in the past so please assume I'm really dumb and confused. I have some really basic questions. Here's my situation:

1. I am looking for an amplifier with an integrated DAC. I don't know the difference between amplifier and receiver so I might be using the wrong term here. I will also need speakers but one thing at a time.

2. I store all my music on a hard drive. Everything is encoded in FLAC and I use the Musicbee app (I really like it and would rather continue using it). I have never used streaming platforms and I'm not interested in starting now.

3. I also have a SONY uhd/blu-ray player with three outputs: coaxial/hdmi (A/V)/HDMI (Audio only)

4. I want to be able to connect both my computer and my uhd/blu-ray player to the amplifier/receiver. I am not interested in 5.1/7.1/9.1 because I only watch old movies (I'm talking 1920's to 1970's kind of old). So my assumption is that it would be preferable to go with a stereo system rather than a home cinema one (feel free to point the errors in my ways if you think I'm wrong).

Here are my questions:

1. To connect the computer, do I absolutely need an amp with a USB/B input (I see that Yamaha, Cyrus, Technics and Advance Paris have a few models, not much outside of that), or should I also take into consideration amps with no USB input but one or several TOSLINK or Optical or S/PDIF inputs (I don't understand the difference between those three terms), assuming there is a way to connect that with the USB outputs of the computer? (or is it less than ideal?)

2. Regarding amps that have an HDMI (TV ARC) input, can I also use that to connect to the computer using a plain old HDMI cable and if so, is it a good solution v. the USB solution?

3. Is it better to connect my UHD/Blu-Ray player using an HDMI cable rather than a Coaxial cable? My research seems to indicate that if the output is in stereo (and not multi-channel surround), it makes no difference but I am not sure.

4. If streaming music wirelessly from my computer to the amp, can I do that with the audio files stored on my computer and my trusty old Musicbee app, or do I need to go through a streaming platform/dedicated app? (which I would hate to have to do). Also in terms of sound quality, is it equivalent to going through a cable? (I sense the answer might be more complicated than simply yes/no)

5. Would the Yamaha R-N1000A be a good choice for me? (or R-N2000A if there is a real benefit in terms of what speakers I could pair it with)

 

[antcollinet]

So my assumption is that it would be preferable to go with a stereo system rather than a home cinema one (feel free to point the errors in my ways if you think I'm wrong).

Surround sound systems can upmix stereo to give you a more enveloping feel. I've tried this for stereo and it is interesting, but I don't feel I prefer it over straight stereo. In your position, I'd avoid the extra cost of multi channel, and perhaps get a sub instead, which can make a dramatic improvement.

To connect the computer, do I absolutely need an amp with a USB/B input

No. Personally I prefer Toslink to USB for PC connections because of the inherrent electrical isolation - completely eliminating the risk of PC noise getting into your system. If your PC doesn't already have toslink, there are cheap USB to toslink converters available for around £20 which give audibly perfect results.

for a brief explanation spdif is the data protocol. This can be carried on toslink (optical) interface, or co-ax electrical interface. The Co-ax is often referred to as spdif even though Toslink also uses spdif

Regarding amps that have an HDMI (TV ARC) input, can I also use that to connect to the computer using a plain old HDMI cable

No - ARC uses audio return channel. This can only connect to the ARC hdmi input of a TV. The TV then returns audio to the amp. It is no good for Audio out of a source device.

If you have a TV with ARC, then you should be OK if your DVD player/PC was connected via HDMI to the TV input. The TV can then return the audio back to the amp via ARC. But then the TV is also a monitor for your PC.

If streaming music wirelessly from my computer to the amp, can I do that with the audio files stored on my computer and my trusty old Musicbee app, or do I need to go through a streaming platform/dedicated app?

This will depend on the protocols supported by the app and the music bee app. Look for universal plug and play (upnp) and DLNA. If both amp and app support it then streaming using them should be possible.

Is it better to connect my UHD/Blu-Ray player using an HDMI cable rather than a Coaxial cable? My research seems to indicate that if the output is in stereo (and not multi-channel surround), it makes no difference but I am not sure.

Whichever is most convenient. Though normally you'd want the HDMI connection to go to your tv. I'd be using toslink or coax for the audio if you are not using an AVR.

Would the Yamaha R-N1000A be a good choice for me?

Yes - although there are obviously many others you could consider.

Again - if it was me I'd be leaning heavily towards Yamaha. They produce no nonsense good quality products. But I might also consider one of the WIIM devices - particularly the ultra - with a basic analogue amp - or even your existing amp. Though this would result in a two box solution - and you'd need to be using the Wiim app.

 

[CapMan]

Toslink from a Raspberry Pi based Roon end point to Denon AVR and eARC for the TV.

 

[Timmy]

1. To connect the computer, do I absolutely need an amp with a USB/B input

No.

That »No« is mainly due to the fact that you don’t need an integrated-DAC amplifier at all. Rather consider to buy a normal, DAC-less amp (or keep the one you may have) and add a standalone DAC to it. They are cheap and pretty good, like for instance the S.M.S.L SU-1.

 

[Des Esseintes]

Thanks for the replies. I forgot to mention, the UHD/Blu player will be connected to a projector rather than a TV and will be connected directly to the amp for sound output (rather than going through a TV).

 

[Des Esseintes]

Toslink from a Raspberry Pi based Roon end point to Denon AVR and eARC for the TV.

That means external DAC + DAC-free amplifier, correct?

 

[antcollinet]

That means external DAC + DAC-free amplifier, correct?

I presume he is going from Rasberry pi via toslink directly into the Denon, using the Dad in the Denon.

In this case the Raspi is the equivalent of your PC.

But he is using Roon - another app/system which has a monthly cost associated with it.

 

[antcollinet]

Thanks for the replies. I forgot to mention, the UHD/Blu player will be connected to a projector rather than a TV and will be connected directly to the amp for sound output (rather than going through a TV).

Just think of the projector as being like a TV - Does it have at least 2 HDMI inputs, at least one of which is ARC? If so, you could use ARC input on an amp.

But as I say. Toslink or Coax are just as good, and probably more convenient.

 

[CapMan]

That means external DAC + DAC-free amplifier, correct?

The Raspberry Pi acts as a network streamer (using Roon in my case) and send digital out (via Toslink) to the AVR that does the conversion using its internal DAC.

 

[Des Esseintes]

Just think of the projector as being like a TV - Does it have at least 2 HDMI inputs, at least one of which is ARC? If so, you could use ARC input on an amp.

But as I say. Toslink or Coax are just as good, and probably more convenient.

My projector is a bit old (Sony VPL HW55ES from 2013). I might buy another one at some point but for the time being that's the one I will be using. It does not say "ARC" on the HDMI ports so I am not sure. In terms of convenience, it makes quite a bit of a difference compared to a TV since the projector will be placed about 5 meters away from the screen/amp/blu-ray player so I would rather just send one HDMI cable there rather than going back and forth.

 

[Des Esseintes]

No.

That »No« is mainly due to the fact that you don’t need an integrated-DAC amplifier at all. Rather consider to buy a normal, DAC-less amp (or keep the one you may have) and add a standalone DAC to it. They are cheap and pretty good, like for instance the S.M.S.L SU-1.

Essentially when connecting an external DAC to a DAC-less amp, you are using those standard red/white audio cables, right? (again, sorry for not knowing how they are called). Is it functionally the same thing as having the DAC inside the amp, and if so is there any real benefit to having an integrated-DAC amplifier beyond the convenience of having only one machine?

 

[Timmy]

Essentially when connecting an external DAC to a DAC-less amp, you are using those standard red/white audio cables, right?

Yes. I for me call them cinch cables

The »external DAC solution« gives you an easy opportunity to upgrade your audio system to one featuring the latest (best?) DAC at anytime – while an amp-internal DAC can not so easily be changed.

 

[Des Esseintes]

Another option that has been suggested to me was to buy a cheapo home cinema amp such as the Marantz Cinema 70S and then if that's not enough, add a power amplifier such as the AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S250NC. The reasoning behind this being that on home cinema amps it's often the amplification part that's lacking whereas power amps tend to be cheap relative to the power they provide, so the total price for both would be about the same or cheaper than an integrated amp with DAC included, while not foregoing the options of adding satellites and a central speaker further down the road.

Any thoughts?

 

[antcollinet]

Another option that has been suggested to me was to buy a cheapo home cinema amp such as the Marantz Cinema 70S and then if that's not enough, add a power amplifier such as the AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S250NC. The reasoning behind this being that on home cinema amps it's often the amplification part that's lacking whereas power amps tend to be cheap relative to the power they provide, so the total price for both would be about the same or cheaper than an integrated amp with DAC included, while not foregoing the options of adding satellites and a central speaker further down the road.

Any thoughts?

That is also an option. Though if you are going down that road, I'd suggest starting with the built in amps. Even if they are lacking, the imperfections are almost certainly not audible. The only real reason for going for external amps is if you need more power.

You'd also need to make sure the AVR has proper (volume controlled) pre-outs (EDIT : None of the entry level models I've just looked at do, you need to go up to the £500 price level to get that) to go to the power amp if you were to choose to use one. At least for the front speakers.

 

[Multicore]

My projector is a bit old (Sony VPL HW55ES from 2013). I might buy another one at some point but for the time being that's the one I will be using. It does not say "ARC" on the HDMI ports so I am not sure. In terms of convenience, it makes quite a bit of a difference compared to a TV since the projector will be placed about 5 meters away from the screen/amp/blu-ray player so I would rather just send one HDMI cable there rather than going back and forth.

It is a troublesome business. We have a projector mounted on the ceiling and only the HDMI cable from the cabinet with the electronics to there. A/V sources are a Roku and a BluRay player.

We use a no-brand HDMI switch & audio extractor with optical SPDIF output. I'm loathed to change anything in the system knowing how wobbly things are with no-brand HDMI gear like that.

Here's the block diagram of the whole system with interface types. It's mess.

As far as I understand these things, the problem stems from the costs of licensing HDMI tech and the traditions in ghastly AV receiver market segment.

Something like this, if it works with your other gear, might help.

Audio Extractor HDMI 5.1 to HDMI / Optical / Jack HDCP2.2 HDR 4K 60Hz ARC - Audiophonics

This extractor / splitter allows to recover 4 HDMI signals in input. The output is also done on a HDMI connector compatible ARC (Audio Return Channel). The device also allows to extract the audio signal.

www.audiophonics.fr

 

[Tom C]

ARC is less common on projectors (as opposed to TV’s). My projector doesn’t have it, and it’s from 2022. Most projector people have their various sources routed to an AVR using HDMI. Then the AVR does the selecting between the various sources, with a single HDMI cable running to the projector from the AVR. It is convenient and as good quality wise as anything available, with respect to both sound and video.
My projector has only two inputs, and my TV has more, so routing everything to the TV, and using the TV as the input selector works better in that situation, if that’s how you like to do it. With a TV, all of the various components are typically located near each other in a cabinet or on a stand, which helps too. Projectors are often physically further away, like on the ceiling, or in the back of the room.
My disc player has two HDMI outs, so one can go to the projector, and one, which is audio only, can go to the AVR, which it sounds like what you are doing. There is also a coax digital out, which is another name for the SPDIF referred to above. So, in such a circumstance, it would be possible to use HDMI to the projector and coax digital to the AVR, if one wanted.
I have a disc player, Apple TV, PC, and cable TV box in that room, all of which I want to use with the projector, so HDMI is the practical solution for me, since I expect no audible difference in sound quality when choosing between HDMI vs SPDIF vs TOSLINK vs etc.. I personally haven’t experienced noise problems with HDMI, but I can see where an optical connection could potentially be an advantage in the case of connecting a PC to a sound system. My AVR allows me to rename each input, and specify which digital input to use for audio and video, so the user can have any combination of HDMI for video, plus HDMI, coaxial or optical for audio, with the limit being two available coax connections, two for optical, and seven for HDMI.
Be sure and check the owner manual for a unit that you are considering buying. It will tell you what you need to know.

 

[Des Esseintes]

That is also an option. Though if you are going down that road, I'd suggest starting with the built in amps. Even if they are lacking, the imperfections are almost certainly not audible. The only real reason for going for external amps is if you need more power.

You'd also need to make sure the AVR has proper (volume controlled) pre-outs (EDIT : None of the entry level models I've just looked at do, you need to go up to the £500 price level to get that) to go to the power amp if you were to choose to use one. At least for the front speakers.

I was actually recommended the Denon AVC-X4800H, which is a lot pricier, but well regarded on this forum as well it seems (here)

Regarding the connectivity of the projector, I was just planning on sending one hdmi cable from the BD player to the projector, and use either the coaxial or hdmi (audio only) output of the player to send the sound to the amp (I am currently using a Nuforce DDA100 that way).

 

[antcollinet]

I was actually recommended the Denon AVC-X4800H, which is a lot pricier, but well regarded on this forum as well it seems (here)

Regarding the connectivity of the projector, I was just planning on sending one hdmi cable from the BD player to the projector, and use either the coaxial or hdmi (audio only) output of the player to send the sound to the amp (I am currently using a Nuforce DDA100 that way).

Check out also the 3800. Not much lower power, but typically much lower price.

Also if. you go that route, it would make more sense to plug the BD player into the AVR using HDMI, and use the HDMI out from the AVR to the projector. You would then also be able to connect any future video sources to the AVR and have them displayed via the projector also.