How do we get more people excited about HiFi?

[Galliardist]

Increasingly contemporary designs have constant directivity and also cardioid , on and off-axis are the same, less output behind the speaker , which negates the need for passive absorption which is often only effective over a small portion of the FR.
A symmetrical placement is still advisable.
Keith

Even with conventional designs, if they are good enough it's not a waste of time to have non-symmetrical setups in well furnished but not specially treated rooms. I'm forced to have my system that way, and while it's never going to be as good as a dedicated room, better placed speakers, it still sounds far better than poorly designed speakers in "better" setups.

Like a lot of other people, I essentially have to live in a small apartment in an older building without current noise standards. The stress on "man caves", special treatment, arrays of subwoofers and perfect setups will put people off buying good sound: the better contemporary designs will be better than I have now (not that I'm going to chase that, what I have does for us).

The combination of snake oil products that ordinary people will see through on the one hand, and the stress on perfection and the unattainable on the other, does a lot to put people off buying.

 

[Spkrdctr]

If younger people are interested, they can seek stuff out for themselves, even reinvent the hobby to suit their own realities.

They are. Earbuds and small computer speakers. They seem to not care about home theater sound and if they do they most likely get a mid priced surround system at best. Usually a sound bar system is more than good enough. It is just the nature of the beast. Fairly good sound can be had from high end soundbars today. So, like everything else it has changed permanently. No more horse carriages trotting down the street anymore. Also computers have really botched up the whole music thing. The AVR is a one box shopping, plug and play system. Topping stacks, multiple DACs, Pre-pro, and headphone amps all muddy the waters a lot. Headphones can sound very good until you get a decent/good system for say movies, that rocks your room with thunderous bass and massive detail and swooping surround sound. Headphones are "good enough" as they are cheaper and most people will never hear the difference between a good surround system and a mediocre $300 sound bar and tiny sub. It is like taking a VW beetle to the drag race, sure it will go down the track but you have lost all the excitement and fun. Same for fantastic two channel. It is a pain to set up for most people as they have to delve into DSP so many dodge the whole issue and get that super easy, plug and play sound bar, no matter how crappy that sound bar may be. So many people on this thread have put up so many great reasons for our current audio situation. You all are pretty smart and I think hitting the nail on the head. Thanks for a good thread, I enjoy reading all the posts.

 

[Leporello]

Exactly. They can easily spend more than Airpods etc but yet get worse sound and less convenience.

We may think the Airpods sound significantly worse but do they think so? We may think the difference between a room corrected studio monitor and their lifestyle mini hifi mdf two-way box is huge and essential but is it to them? And if not, then why not?

 

[test1223]

So many interesting thoughts here thank you!

It is interesting that almost all here are looking at all developments from a technical and none emotional standpoint at it. I as an electrical engineer can definitely understand these views but I think there is at least another level which is based on emotional and cultural experiences.

One example is the headphone hype. My claim is that a main contributor was the marketing of beats headphones some years ago. This fueled the growing interest in headphones a lot. Such a hype sticks to a lot of people which experience the hype in there teenage years. Some of those people are probably now the headphone HiFi guys.

Longer ago there was a car audio hype, which was fueled by shows like pimp my ride and films like fast and furious. I guess some of those people are also now HiFi guys.

A lot of people cycle in there lifetime around some hobbys or topics. The fist contact is in there teenage years or a bit later and than they come back from time to time. This is also the reason why collectables like coins, baseball card, Pokemon cards or some old videos games become more and more expansive until the generation which grow up with it slowly fades away...

There is the rumor that engineer are very bad at marketing and I guess there is some truth to that. There are many business areas like fashion or home decor where an artificial demand is generated for things that a lot of people don't need at all. I think in the HiFi space many companies can't even create demand for a great product that many would really enjoy. Which is kind of sad and one thought why I started this thread here...

 

[MattHooper]

My initial reaction to the question in the OP is:

Why bother?

I mean, if we were a bunch of manufactures, then of course sure it makes sense to wonder how to get people into gear.

But if you’re asking just plain old audiophiles like me, why would I feel the need to proselytize? I no more feel the need to proselytize for my high-end audio hobby than I would if I were into knitting or bobsledding.

People are into what they are in to.

That said, I decided to ask my son, in his 20s and still living between home and residence at his university, about his audio gear aspirations.

He’s grown up with a dad into hi-fi, an elaborate system. My son asks now it again to listen to his music on my system and quite enjoys it. He’s always amazed.

So I asked him if he had any aspirations to have a nice audio set up when he finally gets his own place. He said not really, not of the sit down and listen type that I’ve set up. He pointed out that he mostly listens to music on the go. So he felt the first thing he care about is a better car stereo system, since that’s how he listens to so much of his music driving to and from work. Other than that earbuds allow him music on the go. He finds Apple AirPods acceptable.

I’ve had tons of guests sit in front of my system and they thoroughly enjoyed the experience. However, very few took it as inspiration to get into better audio gear. A select a few did: I’ve seen the light go on for certain people, guys usually, who did end up getting better gear (for instance, I helped one guy move from truly crappy speakers to some nice KEF LS 50s which he and his entire family really seem to appreciate)

 

[kemmler3D]

My initial reaction to the question in the OP is:

Why bother?

Literalist answer:

Because if the market grows, to some extent we should expect the variety of good gear to go up, and the cost to go down. This may benefit us personally even if we don't otherwise care about it.

 

[test1223]

Literalist answer:

Because if the market grows, to some extent we should expect the variety of good gear to go up, and the cost to go down. This may benefit us personally even if we don't otherwise care about it.

Yes there is much more to it. Like the music and film industry which gets more incentives to produce better sounding content.

The likelihood of an implementation of good ideas like a dedicated headphone master of a song or a dynamic range knop for systems...

Essential it is a question if good sound will be valued more or less in the next decades.

 

[dfuller]

People need much more income to make audio a thing for them.

It's just a fact, wages have stagnated and costs like rent and food have skyrocketed, people don't make enough to have expensive hobbies like audio. That's the answer.

 

[Petrushka]

Yes there is much more to it. Like the music and film industry which gets more incentives to produce better sounding content.

The likelihood of an implementation of good ideas like a dedicated headphone master of a song or a dynamic range knop for systems...

Essential it is a question if good sound will be valued more or less in the next decades.

The market is already supporting the likes of Wiim And Fosi. That level is much, much, better than mass market gear from decades ago. Not everyone wants a Rolex.

 

[RayDunzl]

If you think getting people excited about HiFi is hard, try getting them interested in flying around in an airplane with no motor.

"In Europe, there are approximately 27,000 gliders registered1. In the United States, the number is around 2,500 gliders"

Maybe I'll be reborn in an easterly direction after my time is up here in the west.

 

[kemmler3D]

If you think getting people excited about HiFi is hard, try getting them interested in flying around in an airplane with no motor.

"In Europe, there are approximately 27,000 gliders registered1. In the United States, the number is around 2,500 gliders"

Maybe I'll be reborn in an easterly direction after my time is up here in the west.

I found this interesting so checked on the registry of powered aircraft - the situation seems to be reversed here:

Number of aircraft
The US has the world's largest aircraft registry, with over 300,000 aircraft, including around 30,000 private jets. This is about 4.5 times the number of private jets registered in Europe.

So I guess people in the US want to go somewhere with their planes - Americans, utilitarian as always, not appreciating things for their own beauty, I guess.

 

[Timcognito]

Maybe I'll be reborn in an easterly direction after my time is up here in the west.

Or better as bird with large wings. You have earned those.

 

[ta240]

How do we get people, regardless of age, to sit down and actively listen to music?

I have no idea as most don't 'actively' watch shows or movies anymore. Their phones get most of their attention. It is so common that I will be talking to someone about a show or movie they just watched and their response will be "I don't remember that part". I often find shows that have jokes or storylines that tie back in to things that happened before don't do well because people with their faces planted in phones will have missed the setup.

And, it's not a hobby for young people as much as it was in the 70s, tweaking a system to get better performance.

I'm not sure I'd wish it as a hobby on most people. Listening to music as a hobby? Sure. Equipment as a hobby? No.
I'm thinking they will buy a wireless system and listen to it until it becomes obsolete. That is probably better for their sanity and the environment.

I could not sit through more than 10 seconds of that advertisement. It is clear I'm not their market because that was annoying. And all the matchy matchy looking equipment ended up too much.

Agreed... people want what they want. Wanting them to want something else is doing it the hard way.

I think KEF get this. The LS50w and LS60 and a few others are leaning into an all-in-one world. Makes sense if you ask me.

The quest to make people like what 'they should' likely drives some away. I can't imagine the "Can someone explain the vinyl renaissance?" thread makes anyone go "this seems like a fun hobby".

Everywhere I go I see people with earbuds. Stockers in the grocery store. Random shoppers.

I wish I went where you go. I encounter a lot with the music or audio from their video just blaring out of their phone. Or the really fun ones where they bring a Bluetooth speaker with them to the store to really share their music.

As a starter, keep them away from ASR! far, far away . . .
ASR tells people:
- $100 DACs are as good as or better than those ultra spec , ultra expensive stuff (Hell even $10 DACs)
- So many things are below the threshold of audibility, so don't worry about them
- Save your money, don't spend on cables, isolation pads, blah blah
.
.
ASR sucks the life out of Audiophiles, and they are the ones that keep spending money on this hobby, which is a lot more about the gear, than results and enjoyment of music.
So as a dealer, Keep knocking ASR, don't let your potential customers anywhere near it.

You make it sound like the theme on here is to not buy new things. Pretty much as many things get hyped up on here as elsewhere, they are just different. It isn't as if threads where people ask about upgrades are answered with "If you like your current system then stay with it". I'd love to see stats on how many people have gone through multiple new DACs that were recommended on here. And the number of people that have multiple class D amps as each new one gets 'better' performance. I don't think this site breeds any less discontent with people's systems than the other 'audiophile' sites.

People do not buy Mercedes because it transports them better. They buy because it is luxurious.

What seems to be dead is low end brick and mortar. You can buy stuff on Amazon, and it will be satisfactory.

True, the introductory level brick and mortar is gone. It is hard to move up the levels of equipment when the starter 'system' is a Sonos or similar.

Because "hi-fi", as we geezers know it, isn't simply listening - it is an immersive experience - an event.

I'm not sure a lot of people now could handle that limited amount of stimulus. We now have people that can't even just drive and listen to music, they have to watch and comment on videos while they are driving.

Realistically, I think Sonos has pretty much already done this. We're sitting here wondering why younger generations aren't into Hi-Fi, meanwhile we're looking at a billion dollar Hi-Fi brand like it doesn't count for some reason.

Apparently the only thing that the measurement and the non-measurement people will agree on is that Sonos isn't good enough to count. It is the hobby of electronics vs the hobby of listening.

I count 84 sites, not sure what this post all about. You know those TV commercials in the US that make fun of becoming your parents. This post is about the parents urging their kids to become like them.

That is hilarious. I can picture the guy in the commercial telling the younger people "Now sit down here in front of the speakers. No. don't look at your phone. No, don't read, leave the TV off, put the puzzle away. JUST LISTEN!!!!"

My initial reaction to the question in the OP is:

Why bother?

I mean, if we were a bunch of manufactures, then of course sure it makes sense to wonder how to get people into gear.

I agree. While I've gotten audio items for a few younger relatives, it was always what fit their needs and wants. I'm guessing they will have those items until they break or are no longer supported. I have no desire to go back to them and go "hey, did you know there is a new option for that where you might be able to hear a difference?"
I'm fine with helping them enjoy the music just a bit more but have no interest in trying to turn them into people obsessed with each new product that comes out.

 

[Holmz]

Yes there is much more to it. Like the music and film industry which gets more incentives to produce better sounding content.

The likelihood of an implementation of good ideas like a dedicated headphone master of a song or a dynamic range knop for systems...

Essential it is a question if good sound will be valued more or less in the next decades.

Do people watch a movie for the sound track?
I suppose some might, but a lot of movies I like have no sound track.

For the one’s that do, the sound is there to help sell the movie.
So the sound cannot be aweful, but once it passes some threshold, then it satisfies most of the audience.
Hence for the person controlling movie cost there is a push to make it only as good as it needs to be.
For the sound engineer, mixer, or whatever they are called… they may want to do more, but the whip is usually on them.

 

[early rejecter]

Apparently the only thing that the measurement and the non-measurement people will agree on is that Sonos isn't good enough to count. It is the hobby of electronics vs the hobby of listening.

I don’t think they agree on that either?
Sonos Five measurements and review
Sonos One sounds better than my KEF R11

 

[Petrushka]

I don’t think they agree on that either?
Sonos Five measurements and review
Sonos One sounds better than my KEF R11

I have a Sonos One for the bathroom, and it sounds great there.

But…

Give it something with bass and it sounds like a jug band. Whooo, whoooo. Sometimes I leave it on while listening to the main system, and hear this. I’m thinking, have my speakers broken?

But, in its appropriate setting it sounds great.

The other thing is, Ports let you use your own amp and speakers. And your own files, or your choice of streaming services. I doubt if they are seriously compromised.

 

[Palladium]

We may think the Airpods sound significantly worse but do they think so? We may think the difference between a room corrected studio monitor and their lifestyle mini hifi mdf two-way box is huge and essential but is it to them? And if not, then why not?

There's not much sonic difference to me between the Buds FE and a TE Zero: Red stock wise.
Except the FE has ANC which wins by a country mile in outdoor noise and also a zillion times more convenient to use.

 

[early rejecter]

But, in its appropriate setting it sounds great.

Agreed! I have traditional setups in my living room and office, but have a mix of Sonos Ones and Play:1s and even a few IKEA Symfonisks throughout the rest of the house and they’ve been fantastic for casual whole-home listening. And I picked up some very inexpensive secondhand Connects for my traditional systems, and use a Sonos Amp for the TV. My family loves the simplicity and the amount of music they listen to increased dramatically when I started putting them in. Doesn’t matter how good something sounds if it’s not being used.

 

[Petrushka]

Agreed! I have traditional setups in my living room and office, but have a mix of Sonos Ones and Play:1s and even a few IKEA Symfonisks throughout the rest of the house and they’ve been fantastic for casual whole-home listening. And I picked up some very inexpensive secondhand Connects for my traditional systems, and use a Sonos Amp for the TV. My family loves the simplicity and the amount of music they listen to increased dramatically when I started putting them in. Doesn’t matter how good something sounds if it’s not being used.

As a tech I used to say any computer that works is faster than any computer that doesn’t.

In a family, any system that everyone can use is better than one that no one can figure out.

Now, about that working thing…

 

[dualazmak]

Also computers have really botched up the whole music thing.

Sorry, but I do not always agree with this specific comment of yours...

I do hope you will understand well how powerful excellent flexible reliable PC-based DSP and ASIO-routing as well as music-player software tools would be, after you kindly read through my latest system setup shared in my post here #931 on my project thread.