How do people feel about intentionally colored Amps targeted to specific headphones (iFi Zen CAN6xx)?

[Chuu]

iFi is releasing a DAC/AMP combo specifically targeting the HD 6xx/650. The goal is to take the FR of the headphones, and in the unit EQ it to something considered more pleasing.

I find this type of product very compelling. I think for a lot of people the 6xx is endgame, and having a unit specifically targeting them to EQ correct, at the $250 price point, seems like a great idea. Basically a 'buy this dac/amp, this headphone, and you're pretty much set for life' for my friends who are interested in a high-fidelity setup but no desire to dive off the deep end.

Just wondering how other people feel about these sorts of products, and how would you alter the review process for products like this?

(That being said, I guess the big question here is: why is that the target curve? It's very different than the Harmon curve a lot of the community targets.)

 

[Trouble Maker]

It doesn't seem that much different from DSP/Filters to 'fix' FR. The thing I don't get is a 1 setting system. Can I then never buy another headphone that doesn't work with this, or have to buy a different amp? No thanks.

Something like this concept makes much more sense to me. https://www.devialet.com/soon/expert-pro-sam-ready-speakers/
I don't know anything about how good this is, or bad it is, or if it's too expensive for what it is or not. Just that it exist and conceptually I like the idea.

The cool thing about a headphone setup, is you could do a USB based DAC/DSP/AMP combo. Then you put a software GUI in the PC to pick the headphone and it would automatically put the filter setting onto the unit. The filter definition file for each headphone should be able to be held in pretty small text files. So you could have settings for 1,000s of headphones just sitting on your PC. If the amp or headphone maker (or even community) makes more settings, you could have another button in the GUI to 'update filter files' and it pulls any new ones. You could even have a few different settings on the unit and switch on the fly. Put a button to switch filters and a readout to show which setting is live e.g. HD650, HD650+bass, HD700, etc. For those that don't connect to a PC, you could also make a phone app that does the same thing.

You have to be relatively tech savvy and do some research/digging to do DSP on your PC on your own. With speaker based systems you can just use a cheap mic for auto room correction. But with headphones I assume you would need something like miniDSPs EARS. Not that many people are going to invest in that. So I think something that is simple to use and has flexible (not fixed to 1 set of headphones) DSP (FR correction) with good performance for headphones makes a ton of sense.

I know even less about typical performance and target curves for headphones than speakers, which isn't much to begin with. Those are end game and that is an ideal target curve? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I think I've noticed that wonky response on the high end in other headphone response, what is up with that; something with the driver being so close to your ears and the typical shape of the ear or something along those lines?

 

[solderdude]

It is a bit similar of the 2015 SeNNator, except that one also lowers the midbass hump slightly.
This was based on an 'universal' active correction filter developed in 2012.
This ifi is commercially available where the SeNNator was DIY only.

 

[Chuu]

This was based on an 'universal' active correction filter developped in 2014.

Sorry but I'm not familiar with some of the terminology. What does "active" mean in this context? Does it imply the circuit was doing something more than just EQ?

 

[solderdude]

passive EQ is just some filter components (capacitor, inductor, resistor) that can only attenuate and not amplify (with the exception of a transformer when it comes to voltage gain).
Think crossover filter in a speaker or this for headphones.

Active filters can have gain (amplification) as well as attenuation and need a power supply to work as there are active components inside such as transistors, FETs, opamps, tubes etc.

 

[Jimbob54]

I think its a gimmick, but a harmless one and a smart bit of marketing given the popularity of the 6XX.

As long as the amp itself is sufficiently clean and powerful for other cans , so be it.

Not sure why you would pay $250 for this when the THX 789 is only $50 more though. Combine that with some software based EQ and you truly are set for life.

 

[richard12511]

iFi is releasing a DAC/AMP combo specifically targeting the HD 6xx/650. The goal is to take the FR of the headphones, and in the unit EQ it to something considered more pleasing.

View attachment 74429

I find this type of product very compelling. I think for a lot of people the 6xx is endgame, and having a unit specifically targeting them to EQ correct, at the $250 price point, seems like a great idea. Basically a 'buy this dac/amp, this headphone, and you're pretty much set for life' for my friends who are interested in a high-fidelity setup but no desire to dive off the deep end.

Just wondering how other people feel about these sorts of products, and how would you alter the review process for products like this?

(That being said, I guess the big question here is: why is that the target curve? It's very different than the Harmon curve a lot of the community targets.)

Why not just do it with EQ? That way you could turn it on and off and use multiple headphones or loudspeakers. With this, it will only sound good for those headphones.

 

[Vini darko]

Hopefully ifi will sell there own version with that bass boost and stereo wide. Could be a really good option.

 

[pozz]

Maybe this says something about production costs that they would bother coming up with a product like this. Maybe they see some opportunity for profit that I don't. Something significant enough to be worth it.

I'd like to understand how they came to that decision.

Edit: Review of the vanilla iFi Zen: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/ifi-zen-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.9885/

 

[tomtoo]

If you can switch off the EQ why not?

 

[Veri]

Maybe this says something about production costs that they would bother coming up with a product like this. Maybe they see some opportunity for profit that I don't. Something significant enough to be worth it.

I'd like to understand how they came to that decision.

Drop has a Zen DAC signature and Drop Zen CAN out, but to connect them balanced there's the bundled option for a 4.4mm balanced interconnect which they charge a whopping $89 for. Yes, Sony's official pentaconn connector is a rather expensive part but I still feel there's profit to be made here by iFi

 

[Jimbob54]

Maybe this says something about production costs that they would bother coming up with a product like this. Maybe they see some opportunity for profit that I don't. Something significant enough to be worth it.

I'd like to understand how they came to that decision.

Edit: Review of the vanilla iFi Zen: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/ifi-zen-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.9885/

I think they are hoping people go for the $500 matching pair of DAC and amp- for their $200 headphones. Not quite sure if one has already gone for a (Mass)Drop procured DAC/amp to go with your 6XX, you would look to get this.

EDIT- and yes, with the set comes the "opportunity" to get the connecting $89 cable as @Veri points out.

 

[Jimbob54]

Maybe this says something about production costs that they would bother coming up with a product like this. Maybe they see some opportunity for profit that I don't. Something significant enough to be worth it.

I'd like to understand how they came to that decision.

Edit: Review of the vanilla iFi Zen: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/ifi-zen-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.9885/

Im hoping the only thing this DAC/amp shares with that is the styling/ case.

 

[pozz]

Drop has a Zen DAC signature and Drop Zen CAN out, but to connect them balanced there's the bundled option for a 4.4mm balanced interconnect which they charge a whopping $89 for. Yes, Sony's official pentaconn connector is a rather expensive part but I still feel there's profit to be made

They must have a lot of mostly ready-made variants ready to go.

I can't fully grasp why they would charge that much for a cable given the price of the units.

 

[solderdude]

Maybe this says something about production costs that they would bother coming up with a product like this. Maybe they see some opportunity for profit that I don't. Something significant enough to be worth it.

I'd like to understand how they came to that decision.

Edit: Review of the vanilla iFi Zen: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/ifi-zen-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.9885/

I have been asked by Massdrop (many years ago) to market products like the SeNNator and Kameleon myself but think the market is too small.
They wanted to have them made in China but did not see the potential.
My designs are public so everyone can build them.
If there was a big market for this there would be Chinese brands building them.
So far only my Tx amp was kind of 'copied' by 2 brands in a slightly different config.

I reckon the Senn version board/design can also be used as a normal amp with different component choices so only the faceplate would have to be custom and 2 revisions for PCB's. The enclosure already existed in the DAC.

There is an unbelievable amount of HD580, HD600, HD650, HD6XX, HD58X out there and not everyone has or wants digital EQ.
For instance those playing vinyl would have to digitize first which is a big nono for them.
Some use players that don't have EQ or CDP's.
For them this kind of solution is a good option.
Some just want treble peaks gone and like the rest of the tonal character. In that case a passive filter is enough and can even plug it in a CDP headphone plug or any other device.

For digital users of course there are many many options.

 

[Jimbob54]

They must have a lot of mostly ready-made variants ready to go.

I can't fully grasp why they would charge that much for a cable given the price of the units.

Not sure about other variants. They know Drop have shifted >100k units of the 6xx and have basically done a deal to get this "bespoke" (and not cheap) add on perfectly niche marketed to any of those 100k purchasers who still use Drop.

EDIT- 58X has sold around 50k. I suspect the K7XX may be the next most popular Drop exclusive (or some of the Fostex XX?) at less than 10k.

 

[solderdude]

Even if they sell 100 of those to all HD580, HD600, HD650, HD6XX, HD58X owners (they even claim HD700, HD800S and HD595 etc.) to the millions of such Sennheiser owners it could be worth their effort.
There are plenty of other headphones like the DT880, K701 and other 'similar' bass headphones it can be sold to more or less successfully.
The fact that it can drive high impedances and low impedances and this balanced and single ended doesn't make it a small niche amp I reckon.

 

[Jimbob54]

Even if they sell 100 of those to all HD580, HD600, HD650, HD6XX, HD58X owners (they even claim HD700, HD800S and HD595 etc.) to the millions of such Sennheiser owners it could be worth their effort.
There are plenty of other headphones like the DT880, K701 and other 'similar' bass headphones it can be sold to more or less successfully.
The fact that it can drive high impedances and low impedances and this balanced and single ended doesn't make it a small niche amp I reckon.

Yup- I think the HD6XX "mode" is the hook, I just hope its a well functioning amp without the magic button. Ifi do seem to like their magic buttons though. Always wonder why.

 

[solderdude]

SBAF review:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ifi-zen-can-signature-6xx-review-stream.9595/

Seems like the HD6XX correction was based on Tyll's HD650 plot given the 6kHz 'dip' which is caused by an incorrect compensation Tyll used.
Maybe ifi's measurements were made on a similar KEMAR HATS with the same compensation ... ?

It seems to have made it in the ifi.

Both oratory1990, me as well as SBAF don't show a dip there.
If we are to believe RAA there even is a 6dB peak at that frequency (which also isn't true due to incorrect compensation).
6kHz is where sibilance resides. The small and narrow (3.5dB) boost, however is probably too small to make the HD6** sibilant.
In case of the HD800, which already has a substantial 6kHz peak, this is made even worse.
Strange decision but understandable if Tyll's or similarly made measurements were used.

At least the bass is corrected (close to Harman) and the amplifier itself is good, balanced and unbalanced out as well.

 

[Chuu]

Thanks for a link to the review. Honestly the most interesting part of the review are how many words they spent hand-wrangling about how much a negative-review would hurt their relationship with iFi.

That's not a good look.

But yeah, based on that review, even if the concept is good that execution seems poor.