How Connectors, Cables, or Solders sound?

[ryohnosuke]

Hi. I noticed around the internet that some "pro audio" guys (or even audiophiles) claims something like "this connector sounds better than this other one" or "this cable give better low end" or "this solder have x% of silver so it sounds better than a 60/40 solder" I want to know if there is a way to measure that.

I bought different solders, connectors and cables to test for myself:

*Connectors: Neutrik, Amphenol, Switchcraft XLR, RCA, 3.5mm, they all "gold plated" versions.
*Starquad signal cables: Klotz SQ422Y, Mogami 3534, Canare L-4E6S.
*Solders: WBT 0400, Cardas Audio Quad Eutectic, MG Chemmicals SAC305.

My conclusion is that they all sound the same! My ears are 'not trained' but I wanted to hear a tiny difference with the expensive WBT silver solder...

So, is there a "cheap" way to measure that (multimeter/oscilloscope)? Audio analyzers could be so expensive to me right now and I don't know how to use it.
I'm electronic newbie.

 

[gene_stl]

At this forum the consensus is something like "if you can't measure it, it probably does not exist"
Your results make perfect sense. With decent cables and connectors you are not going to hear any difference from any of the different things you changed.
Most of the people who tell you they can hear this or that difference are experiencing some kind of expectation bias. Or more likely they want to sell you something.

 

[solderdude]

Poor contacts can be something that becomes (quite) audible.
Usually as noise, crackling or intermittent sound or sound degradation (I heard all of these effects).
This is more likely to happen with 2.5mm, 3.5mm and 6.3mm jack plugs than XLR.
Also RCA plugs and sockets with crappy contacts can do this.
Dirty plugs and plugs being used a lot (plugging in and out) during professional usage can have some users prefer certain brands or types.
XLR is less prone to problems.

There are no audible differences in connectors and solders but bad solder-joints can produce audible issues (crackling or noise).

If I got 0.1ct per post on the internet and written press that state that connectors, cables and solder makes an audible difference I would be a wealthy man. With the proceeds I could offer a price of $ 1000.- to anyone that could prove it to me in a blind test administered by me.

In short... plugs do not 'sound' but probably one could measure differences between plugs far outside of the audible range (MHz)

 

[ryohnosuke]

There are no audible differences in connectors and solders but bad solder-joints can produce audible issues (crackling or noise).

Yeah, I noticed that with my old weller soldering iron and SAC305 solder. I had to buy a proper soldering station in order to work with leadfree solder.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Starquad cables and similar designs do have an immunity to high frequency noise pickup better than some other configurations. Mogami, Canare probably are favored by pros for this plus good build quality rather than any intrinsic sound signature. The lower noise pickup can be important with microphone cabling as it needs so much gain applied to the signal you don't want noise pickup to be there and get amplified too.

Neutrik and Amphenol connectors are favored basically as they are well designed, reliable, high quality connectors. Again no intrinsic sound to them. They just won't fall apart on you in pro usage.

So in general it isn't worth your time to try and measure any such thing. Mostly if connectors and connections are good, soldering is good there isn't any sound difference between them.

 

[pos]

Here are some interesting findings by Pavel from okto reasearch:

Developing and manufacturing a product is hard, but developing a product on a highest possible level brings a whole new layer of issues. For example - a mere measuring and evaluating such a tiny distortion (-130dB and less) is a madness - an audio analyzer itself distorts significantly, which varies with voltage level and depends on a selected input range. More curiously - cables distort too, depending on a contact plating.

(emphasis mine)

To put things in perspective, here is the kind of distortion levels he is dealing with with the DAC8 Pro: View attachment 33939
2nd harmonic at -138dB and 3rd at -148dB, pretty crazy!

 

[RayDunzl]

My conclusion is that they all sound the same!

That is a reasonable conclusion...

2nd harmonic at -138dB and 3rd at -148dB

Shoutometer says -138dB lies at 5,212 miles/8,389 km

 

[Fluffy]

The only effect a well-built cable could have on sound as far as I know is its effect on impedance. Impedance mismatch between amp and headphones can affect their sound to some degree (and it's completely measurable), and it's highly dependent on their impedance curve. If a cable changes the impedance seen by the amplifier, it could have some effect on frequency response. I haven't conclusively experienced a cable that does that, but I did hear the effects of impedance mismatch, so I believe this is in the realm of possibility.

Should you be worried about this? No. it's unlikely to ever be a problem. And of course 1000$ cables are completely unnecessary anyway.

 

[ryohnosuke]

So in general it isn't worth your time to try and measure any such thing. Mostly if connectors and connections are good, soldering is good there isn't any sound difference between them.

It just the start: Learn how to measure diferent cables, connectors or solders.

I mean I can get expensive Audioquest, Nordost or silver chinese "audiophile hi end" cables from friends, but how can I tell them if their expensive cables doesn't -or does- have a real improvement or difference from a good -and cheap- Canare cable? How can I fight with science if a good friend of mine is a crazy believer that says their cable improve the low end and fix the excesive bright.

With no any measureable proof I'm just a jelouse bastard. hahaha.

 

[Interference]

With my soundcard operating in loopback I can notice some difference between the noise floor of different cables, at least when comparing extremely cheap and thin cables to well-built shielded cables.

Mogami and Canare, as well as Amphenol and Neutrik, are reputable manufacturers well established in the professional market. They can be a bit too expensive for my taste, but they are not trying to sell snake oil like Audioquest or Wireworld.

If you buy microphone-grade cable from any reputable manufacturer you get more than enough for what you need in a home setup. Microphone signals are lower than line signals from digital devices, and impedances are more critical. If it's good enough for a microphone it will be good for any digital source.

 

[DonH56]

With my soundcard operating in loopback I can notice some difference between the noise floor of different cables, at least when comparing extremely cheap and thin cables to well-built shielded cables.

Mogami and Canare, as well as Amphenol and Neutrik, are reputable manufacturers well established in the professional market. They can be a bit too expensive for my taste, but they are not trying to sell snake oil like Audioquest or Wireworld.

If you buy microphone-grade cable from any reputable manufacturer you get more than enough for what you need in a home setup. Microphone signals are lower than line signals from digital devices, and impedances are more critical. If it's good enough for a microphone it will be good for any digital source.

Noise floor is probably due to injected noise from the PC. Quad-shielded cables with proper grounding can also help.

Cable impedance is not usually a consideration for mic cables these days. Digital signals do require specific impedances, not all of which are compatible with mic feeds, but since most manufacturers like to save money to keep costs low and profit high he same cable is often used for analog and digital signals. For example, buy a 75-ohm cable good for digital and video, and it works just fine for audio too. Ditto mic cables suitable for AES digital signals -- they work fine for analog mics (and whatever else) as well.

 

[VMAT4]

Hi. I noticed around the internet that some "pro audio" guys (or even audiophiles) claims something like "this connector sounds better than this other one" or "this cable give better low end" or "this solder have x% of silver so it sounds better than a 60/40 solder" I want to know if there is a way to measure that.

I bought different solders, connectors and cables to test for myself:

*Connectors: Neutrik, Amphenol, Switchcraft XLR, RCA, 3.5mm, they all "gold plated" versions.
*Starquad signal cables: Klotz SQ422Y, Mogami 3534, Canare L-4E6S.
*Solders: WBT 0400, Cardas Audio Quad Eutectic, MG Chemmicals SAC305.

My conclusion is that they all sound the same! My ears are 'not trained' but I wanted to hear a tiny difference with the expensive WBT silver solder...

So, is there a "cheap" way to measure that (multimeter/oscilloscope)? Audio analyzers could be so expensive to me right now and I don't know how to use it.
I'm electronic newbie.

I've held numerous interconnects and speaker cables to my ears. And, I believe they are all 100% silent!
But there is an interesting thread in these here forums about a "Null Tester". Look it up!

 

[DonH56]

I've held numerous interconnects and speaker cables to my ears. And, I believe they are all 100% silent!
But there is an interesting thread in these here forums about a "Null Tester". Look it up!

I held a couple of XLRs up to my ears and pretty sure I heard the ocean...

 

[Blumlein 88]

It just the start: Learn how to measure diferent cables, connectors or solders.

I mean I can get expensive Audioquest, Nordost or silver chinese "audiophile hi end" cables from friends, but how can I tell them if their expensive cables doesn't -or does- have a real improvement or difference from a good -and cheap- Canare cable? How can I fight with science if a good friend of mine is a crazy believer that says their cable improve the low end and fix the excesive bright.

With no any measureable proof I'm just a jelouse bastard. hahaha.

Firstly I would think measuring frequency response is a start. Then noise, and thd. Those are your basic measurements. Connectors, solders and for most purposes cables aren't going to make any difference in these.

Now multi-meters and O-scopes aren't going to offer much help measuring such things. I can also tell you ahead of time, no matter what measurements you do true believers are going to say you aren't measuring well enough, you aren't measuring the right things, and some things matter that cannot be measured.

If you have a good computer sound card or even a laptop with better than average inputs and outputs you could measure some of this. You cannot get results equal to Amir's AP units. You also might use inexpensive recording audio interfaces like those from Focusrite or Steinberg or similar.

I'd currently suggest doing loopback measurements using REW (room eq wizard). It might take a bit to get familiar with it and learn it, but it isn't too tough and it can do very nice measurements of frequency response, THD, IMD and a few other useful things. Do the basic FR, THD, and IMD tests looping back from output to input with one cable, and then swap and use the other cable. You should see results basically are the same no matter the cable. How good the measurements will be are mainly going to be limited by the soundcard you have to use.

Also, such things if you aren't experienced with them always have some gotchas to work out. By that I mean issues to get consistent and reliable results. If using a laptop computer for instance you might have to be careful arranging cable to keep from picking up noise from the PC power supply or something like that. But if you want to learn how to do it that might be a good simple start.

https://www.roomeqwizard.com/

This was developed to mainly setup subwoofers originally and still is mainly for measuring speaker response in room. It has been refined and improved and doing loopbacks it can do a good job measuring electronics as well.

If you really want to improve your sound or that of your friends, get a Umik 1 or similar and use a laptop to measure and refine their speaker placements. All you need is a laptop, REW (which is free) and a USB measuring microphone ($100 or less). For electronics you could get something like the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2.

 

[DonH56]

I would add doing a Kelvin (four-wire) resistance measurement to the list.

 

[HammerSandwich]

Impedance mismatch between amp and headphones can affect their sound to some degree (and it's completely measurable), and it's highly dependent on their impedance curve.

Yes. This, and it can affect more than just headphones.

For people who haven't grokked this yet, it's controlled by the system of source-cable-receiver. So, two cables may be indistinguishable in one system but audibly different in another. The cables do not have an intrinsic sound.

 

[Interference]

Noise floor is probably due to injected noise from the PC. Quad-shielded cables with proper grounding can also help.

Yes, after all I was just around my PC case, and this was an unbalanced interconnection. Still interesting to "see" the effect.

Cable impedance is not usually a consideration for mic cables these days. Digital signals do require specific impedances, not all of which are compatible with mic feeds, but since most manufacturers like to save money to keep costs low and profit high he same cable is often used for analog and digital signals. For example, buy a 75-ohm cable good for digital and video, and it works just fine for audio too. Ditto mic cables suitable for AES digital signals -- they work fine for analog mics (and whatever else) as well.

Sorry, I was a bit unclear. I meant "analog signal from a digital source", meaning a relatively high level compared to usual microphone levels (but I have no wide experience in the field, just anectodal). My reasoning was that if a cable is designed to operate in a context with:
- lower signal level;
- higher source output impedance;
- lower receiver imput impedance;
then for sure it will be good in a context more favorable (like an analog output from a digital source).

In general I agree with your remark.

 

[Earfonia]

My conclusion is that they all sound the same! My ears are 'not trained'

It not about your ears are not trained, but your ears and brain are honest and unbiased. Keep it that way. Don't drink the intoxicating audiophoolery snake oil.

 

[Julf]

The only effect a well-built cable could have on sound as far as I know is its effect on impedance. Impedance mismatch between amp and headphones can affect their sound to some degree (and it's completely measurable), and it's highly dependent on their impedance curve. If a cable changes the impedance seen by the amplifier, it could have some effect on frequency response. I haven't conclusively experienced a cable that does that, but I did hear the effects of impedance mismatch, so I believe this is in the realm of possibility.

Should you be worried about this? No. it's unlikely to ever be a problem. And of course 1000$ cables are completely unnecessary anyway.

I would love to see cables that exhibit impedance issues at audio frequencies (OK, talking about pure cables here, not stuff like MIT that put capacitors or inductors in their cables on purpose).

 

[Fluffy]

I found the article on Innerfidelity that discussed the effects of cable resistance: https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/big-bottom-and-lively-top-philips-fidelio-x1

Here is the important part:

There's been a lot of chatter in the X1 thread at Head-Fi about cable swaps and making a big difference. I'm rather skeptical of claims like that, so I measured the stock cables resistance: 1.8 Ohms, on both signal and ground wires. This seemed rather high to me, so I measured a 5 other similar cables I had lying around and got between 0.5 and 0.8 Ohms. There are two problems with a headphone cable that has this much resistance. First, if you've been following along with the Meridian Explorer and it's initial output impedance problem you'll know that series resistance is going to decrease your damping factor, and cause the headphones to be a little loose sounding. This is a big bass headphone and throwing away damping factor in the cable doesn't seem like a good idea.