How common are significant dropouts in compact disks?

[recovering audiophile]

I recently inherited more than 1000 compact disks. I'm looking for a smaller player, and I like the SMSL PL200T transport. But, I wonder how many would not be playable on that device vs a device such as the Tascam CD-200? Any guesstimates?

Also, the base model Tascam is no longer available in the Americas. Only the CD-200BT (Bluetooth) that goes for $500 is available in the US.

Thanks,
recovering

 

[respice finem]

It's too long ago when I last looked, but yes, CD players may vary in this aspect. There are some tests of them at ASR.
One thing I can say from experience, DVD and BluRay players tend to be more tolerant of less than perfect disks.

As a recovering audiophile, you might want to consider ripping your CDs to FLAC and listen from a HDD/SSD (I know, it's work...).
Any PC drive can do it. The benefit: FLAC will not deteriorate with time, and is lossless. It's also easy to create backup copies of the collection.
I've ripped several thousand CDs, and only maybe 10 of them had ripping issues.

 

[EJ3]

I recently inherited more than 1000 compact disks. I'm looking for a smaller player, and I like the SMSL PL200T transport. But, I wonder how many would not be playable on that device vs a device such as the Tascam CD-200? Any guesstimates?

Also, the base model Tascam is no longer available in the Americas. Only the CD-200BT (Bluetooth) that goes for $500 is available in the US.

Thanks,
recovering

See NTTY's very good (and very positive) review of the PL200's (CD) ability to read HEAVILY damaged CD's. It's a very, very thorough review of these units.

 

[Sono]

[1000 CDs] I wonder how many would not be playable [on any given player]

I’d say that will depend more on the quality of your CDs than on the mentioned players.

 

[respice finem]

I’d say that will depend more on the quality of your CDs than on the mentioned players.

Yes, it depends also on how they were stored etc.

 

[Sono]

How common are significant dropouts in compact disks?

Btw – that’s a fine question to ask your favorite AI pal to do a deep research for you

 

[somebodyelse]

For reference - SMSL PL200 and TASCAM CD-200 reviews - the 'Testing the drive' section is important for this aspect of behaviour. The PL200 does fairly well on playing damaged CDs but the CD-200 aces the test.

The question then is how damaged the 1000 CDs are. Some people take excellent care of them while others don't. Some collect only new CDs while others buy used and don't check them too closely when buying. You'll have to look at them to find out how many are badly damaged.

Note that computer drives have a similar spread of behaviour to CD players when ripping from damaged CDs. There used to be a couple of sites sites that tested this behaviour, and their ability to rip discs that were made deliberately non-compliant to Red Book as an attempt to stop ripping. Those sites closed, and I don't know of any that do it now. This has a bearing on @respice finem's suggestion to rip to FLAC. Note that FLAC can deteriorate over time unless you take specific steps to avoid it - bit flips in memory and storage are rare, but they do happen from time to time, and more often on drives approaching end of life. FLAC does have checksumming so errors can be detected, but it doesn't have the redundancy built into CDs so the errors can't be corrected. If you want correction you need to use a filesystem that can both detect and correct errors. Usually that involves having more than one copy of the data, and replacing the damaged bit with a copy of the undamaged one.

 

[RandomEar]

Note that computer drives have a similar spread of behaviour to CD players when ripping from damaged CDs. There used to be a couple of sites sites that tested this behaviour, and their ability to rip discs that were made deliberately non-compliant to Red Book as an attempt to stop ripping. Those sites closed, and I don't know of any that do it now.

Last time I bought a drive, I checked the drive accuracy list from DBpoweramp. That worked out well and the drive I got read every single CD without error on the first try - even those where another generic Samsung drive struggled. The list does not explicitly cover old school copy protection mechanisms, though. So it's only a partial solution.

This has a bearing on @respice finem's suggestion to rip to FLAC. Note that FLAC can deteriorate over time unless you take specific steps to avoid it - bit flips in memory and storage are rare, but they do happen from time to time, and more often on drives approaching end of life. FLAC does have checksumming so errors can be detected, but it doesn't have the redundancy built into CDs so the errors can't be corrected. If you want correction you need to use a filesystem that can both detect and correct errors. Usually that involves having more than one copy of the data, and replacing the damaged bit with a copy of the undamaged one.

While that is technically true, it is true for any and all files on your PC, phone, tablet or other digital device. I'd argue that if you were not concerned about bit rot on your important stuff like financial data and do not currently have a prevention mechanism in place, adding one for audio data would be a bit over the top.

 

[AnalogSteph]

I've ripped several thousand CDs, and only maybe 10 of them had ripping issues.

Lucky you. I've had to repair almost as many rips with CueRipper alone, and that's just the ones that would not rip properly any other way. My thrift store finds have been particularly troublesome at times. I guess thrift store CDs are a bit like auction cars - not all of them are bad, but all the bad ones are there. I would estimate that on the order of 5% have required partial reripping in secure mode at least.

Granted, a lot of the stuff that makes rippers despair tends to result in small glitches at best (thanks to error correction being relatively sophisticated), but still.

 

[respice finem]

Lucky you. I've had to repair almost as many rips with CueRipper alone, and that's just the ones that would not rip properly any other way. My thrift store finds have been particularly troublesome at times. I guess thrift store CDs are a bit like auction cars - not all of them are bad, but all the bad ones are there. I would estimate that on the order of 5% have required partial reripping in secure mode at least.

Granted, a lot of the stuff that makes rippers despair tends to result in small glitches at best (thanks to error correction being relatively sophisticated), but still.

Maybe it's a matter of climate and such, but most CDs I own are bought used, and the rest was 10-20 years old at time of ripping.
All verified with AccurateRip (foobar2000). Even some of the the problematic ones were rippable in "paranoid mode" or whatever it's now called.
Using two bog standard LG 5 1/4" drives. Or maybe I was just lucky.

Sidenote: When buying personally, many only are just looking if the CD is scratched, I always look against a light bulb, to see if it has "CD rot", which is much worse. Little conflating bubbles, mostly near the edge. Especially susceptible in my experience are CDs treated with the green marker silliness, or otherwise labeled.

 

[respice finem]

For reference - SMSL PL200 and TASCAM CD-200 reviews - the 'Testing the drive' section is important for this aspect of behaviour. The PL200 does fairly well on playing damaged CDs but the CD-200 aces the test.

The question then is how damaged the 1000 CDs are. Some people take excellent care of them while others don't. Some collect only new CDs while others buy used and don't check them too closely when buying. You'll have to look at them to find out how many are badly damaged.

Note that computer drives have a similar spread of behaviour to CD players when ripping from damaged CDs. There used to be a couple of sites sites that tested this behaviour, and their ability to rip discs that were made deliberately non-compliant to Red Book as an attempt to stop ripping. Those sites closed, and I don't know of any that do it now. This has a bearing on @respice finem's suggestion to rip to FLAC. Note that FLAC can deteriorate over time unless you take specific steps to avoid it - bit flips in memory and storage are rare, but they do happen from time to time, and more often on drives approaching end of life. FLAC does have checksumming so errors can be detected, but it doesn't have the redundancy built into CDs so the errors can't be corrected. If you want correction you need to use a filesystem that can both detect and correct errors. Usually that involves having more than one copy of the data, and replacing the damaged bit with a copy of the undamaged one.

FLAC "bit rot" is theoretically possible, but I have yet to see it "in the wild". While "CD rot" seems quite common.
Storage devices can fail too, so backups are "a must" anyway.

BTW: If a CD drive "is bad at ripping", it can be a software thing. Foobar2000 allows for adjusting the tracking offset, and for many drives, even detects it automatically.

 

[RayDunzl]

How common are significant dropouts in compact disks?

I asked for a list, and these are a few notable dropouts in my collection


Ringo Starr (The Beatles): Left high school early after a prolonged hospitalization for tuberculosis, focusing instead on music.

Frank Sinatra: Dropped out of multiple high schools to work odd jobs and pursue singing in local clubs.

Ella Fitzgerald: Stopped attending school at 15 after her mother's death, turning to survival jobs amid family hardships.

Dave Grohl (Nirvana/Foo Fighters): Abandoned high school after attending three different schools, prioritizing music and other interests.

Brian May (Queen): Left Imperial College London to pursue a full-time music career with the band.

Elton John: Quit high school to play piano in local pubs.

Jimi Hendrix: Dropped out of high school at 17 to pursue guitar playing full-time.

Prince: Left high school early to immerse himself in music.


They play just fine, though.

 

[Philbo King]

EAC (Exact Audio Copy) is pretty good at getting rips of damaged CDs.

 

[DVDdoug]

I've got maybe 800 CDs, mostly bought new and not "abused". I've been buying CDs since the early days when CDs were replacing vinyl so most of them are a few decades old.

I'd guess less than 1% of tracks on my CDs have had defects. If there's a problem, it's usually one track on a disc. Most of these "defects" aren't audible when played on a CD player but they show-up when ripping. CD players usually have very-good error correction/error hiding. If a CD has audible errors when playing on a CD player I'll replace it. So I don't have any CDs with audible defects.

When I first started ripping AccurateRip didn't exist but the software still sometimes reports an error. In most cases when a ripping error is reported the sound is "perfect" and it doesn't take me long to forget which ripped tracks had errors. If the defect is audible, I'll try to fix it somehow... Sometimes I'll buy a replacement (new or used), sometimes I'll buy an MP3, and sometimes I'll attempt to "fix it" with Audacity. Of course, an MP3 or a file edited with Audacity isn't "bit perfect" but I'm usually happy if it just sounds OK.

In other cases there are clicks, skips, or ripping will simply fail.

I remember 2 CDs that were good when new and then went completely bad for unknown reasons. One was a Mobile Fidelity CD that was gold-colored so it was probably burned rather than pressed. It developed several actual cracks after being stored in my car (heat, I assume). That's the only time I've seen that and I used to have CDs in my car all the time. (As far as I know MFSL only sold CDs for a short time and I only bought it because that's all the store had for that particular CD.)

I had one bad-new CD that was some kind of compilation from an "unknown" record company. It had audible defects on at least one track and the tracks on the disc didn't exactly-match the description or the tracks listed on the packaging. I ripped the good tracks and returned it.

Note that CDs can be scratched/damaged from the top/label side. The data is on the label side and the CD is read through the full-thickness of the polycarbonate. The top side is probably MORE vulnerable to damage, it's harder to see, and any attempts to polish the top can only make it worse. (The data on a DVD is in the middle of a polycarbonate sandwich and on a Blu-Ray it's on the bottom with a hard-protective coating.)

Note that FLAC can deteriorate over time unless you take specific steps to avoid it - bit flips in memory and storage are rare, but they do happen from time to time, and more often on drives approaching end of life.

VERY RARE. And hard discs are far more reliable than shiny discs. I ONCE had hard drive that was corrupting files. It was an odd setup where my older BIOS didn't support larger drives and there was some kind of "trick driver" that would get-around the size limitations.

Usually when a hard drive fails, it fails badly and if it's the system disc, usually the computer won't boot. I've had that happen a few times.

I've been using SSDs for a few years and I haven't had a problem YET, but all of the important stuff is backed-up (including my A/V files).

I've never had bits flipped in memory. Overall, digital is VERY robust. If there's a typo/error in a document or your bank account it's a good bet it's a human error.

P.S.
I'd consider ANY audible defect to be "significant" even if it's a tiny barely audible "click".

 

[solderdude]

I recently inherited more than 1000 compact disks. I'm looking for a smaller player, and I like the SMSL PL200T transport. But, I wonder how many would not be playable on that device vs a device such as the Tascam CD-200? Any guesstimates?

It depends on the CD quality and how they were stored and handled.

CDPs can differ in how well they cope with dirty CDs, or CDs with bitrot or damaged (scratched) CDs or CD's with pinholes or a low signal output.
This can even vary between CDPs of the same brand/type and depends on the quality of the optical readout block (laser + detector + optics) and the 'receiver' as well as the used method for tracking/focusing and how well the device was adjusted.

In other words there are too many variables to make any informed decision or guestimate.

You would have to be lucky in getting a good CDP and that the CDs were properly stored and cared for.

 

[Robin L]

I've got around 1,600 CDs, most were bought used. I rarely encounter dropouts. I'm using a Blu-Ray player I picked up from a thrift store. Defective CDs are rare and easy to visually spot by looking at the playing surface. Often whatever errors are audible turn out to be fingerprints on the playing side of the discs.

 

[krabapple]

I recently inherited more than 1000 compact disks. I'm looking for a smaller player, and I like the SMSL PL200T transport. But, I wonder how many would not be playable on that device vs a device such as the Tascam CD-200? Any guesstimates?

Also, the base model Tascam is no longer available in the Americas. Only the CD-200BT (Bluetooth) that goes for $500 is available in the US.

Thanks,
recovering

Why do you fear the CDs won't be playable on a CD transport? CD is a robust medium. Are they very scratched/abused-looking?

 

[krabapple]

Lucky you. I've had to repair almost as many rips with CueRipper alone, and that's just the ones that would not rip properly any other way. My thrift store finds have been particularly troublesome at times. I guess thrift store CDs are a bit like auction cars - not all of them are bad, but all the bad ones are there. I would estimate that on the order of 5% have required partial reripping in secure mode at least.

Invest in some toothpaste and a polishing/buffing pad. You can buff out many scratches that might cause 'improper ripping' -- which in my experience ripping CDS since ripping because possible, is very, very rare, though I hardly buy CDS at thrift stores (I use Discogs for anything like that). I used to use EAC to rip but these days I use Accuraterip with secure ripping settings enabled, essentially the same thing.

 

[Robin L]

Invest in some toothpase and a polishing/buffing pad. You can buff out many scratches that might cause 'improper ripping' -- which in my experience ripping CDS since ripping because possible, is very, very rare. I used to use EAC but these days I use Accuraterip with secure ripping settings enabled, essentially the same thing.

I used to have a "disc repair" device, designed to buff out scratches on CDs and other physical digital media. Usually helped with obvious scratches. I've got one disc that didn't get improved by the treatment—the DVD-A of Beck's "Guero". Turns out that the disc was overstuffed with visuals, resulting in numerous hang-ups. But you could choose from multiple visual "mixes". In any case, I'm finding very few CDs with scratches these days, even though I get a CD or two every week, thanks to so many classical discs being dumped on the market, selling for $1 a pop.

 

[EJ3]

I asked for a list, and these are a few notable dropouts in my collection


Ringo Starr (The Beatles): Left high school early after a prolonged hospitalization for tuberculosis, focusing instead on music.

Frank Sinatra: Dropped out of multiple high schools to work odd jobs and pursue singing in local clubs.

Ella Fitzgerald: Stopped attending school at 15 after her mother's death, turning to survival jobs amid family hardships.

Dave Grohl (Nirvana/Foo Fighters): Abandoned high school after attending three different schools, prioritizing music and other interests.

Brian May (Queen): Left Imperial College London to pursue a full-time music career with the band.

Elton John: Quit high school to play piano in local pubs.

Jimi Hendrix: Dropped out of high school at 17 to pursue guitar playing full-time.

Prince: Left high school early to immerse himself in music.


They play just fine, though.

The only multi-millionaire that I personally know was a kid that was a best friend of mine that lived about a 1/4 mile from me growing up. He still lives there.
He DROPPED out of high school when he was 14, became an automotive mechanic, then a train engineer, then got his pilot license for larger twin engine turbo props planes.
Then he developed a computer program that he patented involving airplanes & their deicing. He became a multi-millionaire. He got his helicopter license and started a deconstruction (building demolition) company. While he was doing some demolishing for Boeing, they realized his knowledge (despite having no actual schooling since age 14), hired him, sent him to school for Jet Engines (which he completed in half the normal time) and (even though he no longer needs the money [and is over retirement age], he continues to work in their Jet Propulsion lab. Because he enjoys it. (apparently: he did not enjoy high school very much).
I went on to get useless degrees & made a great living that did not involve the use of much in those degrees.
I actually wish that I had DROPPED out and chosen a similar path to him.
School set me back about 10 years, both time & income wise.