How Cheap is Your Sub?

[watchnerd]

Here is a wireless subwoofer controller / system that integrates with your light bulb speakers:

 

[watchnerd]

Here is the Klipsch wireless access point subwoofer bolt-on that works with "WA Port" compliant subs (Klipsch, Jamo, Energy, etc.)

 

[Blumlein 88]

I'm not clear what you mean by this.

I am guessing two in rear of room was intended.

 

[NorthSky]

How good are wireless subwoofers today?

Reading the ultra hi-end audio magasines there are zero reviews of wireless hi-end speakers and subwoofers, they are all wired electro-mechanical audio components.

Can noise interfer with wireless transmissions? Can there be a lack of full resolution, an inferior audio signal transfer, a drop in some frequencies of the audio spectrum, a fog obscuring the clarity like a veil covering the face of the drivers, a dress over a nude body, a hiding face?

If wireless subs and speakers were hi-res there wouldn't be any need to ultra hi-end audio cable manufacturers.

In a full blast home theater with sixteen channels and four subs, wireless seems to cut complications. How truly good wireless is today?

 

[watchnerd]

How good are wireless subwoofers today?

Reading the ultra hi-end audio magasines there are zero reviews of wireless hi-end speakers and subwoofers, they are all wired electro-mechanical audio components.

Can noise interfer with wireless transmissions? Can there be a lack of full resolution, an inferior audio signal transfer, a drop in some frequencies of the audio spectrum, a fog obscuring the clarity like a veil covering the face of the drivers, a dress over a nude body, a hiding face?

If wireless subs and speakers were hi-res there wouldn't be any need to ultra hi-end audio cable manufacturers.

In a full blast home theater with sixteen channels and four subs, wireless seems to cut complications. How truly good wireless is today?

I don't see any reason they can't be as good as lossless audio streaming, generally, which certain segments have already embraced via pricey products (e.g. Aurender).

And, if low-pass limited, it should be easier then full spectrum audio if they want to bother with SRC given the low Nyquist of sub frequencies. But that's probably not even remotely necessary.

For stereo, just multi-cast the L/R frequencies in full lossless to the whole room and let the endpoints listen in to the stream.

 

[watchnerd]

Reading the ultra hi-end audio magasines there are zero reviews of wireless hi-end speakers and subwoofers

This isn't quite correct.

Stereophile and The Absolute Sound have both reviewed the Dynaudio Focus XD wireless speakers.

In fact, the Focus XD 200 was on Stereophile's Class A (limited LF) until the Fall 2017 edition, when it got bumped by the Dynaudio Contour 20 (I guess Dynaudio had too many entries?).

 

[NorthSky]

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-focus-200-xd-powered-loudspeaker

• https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-focus-200-xd-powered-loudspeaker-measurements

Call me impressed, wow.
_____

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-contour-20-loudspeaker

• https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-contour-20-loudspeaker-measurements

Those Contour 20 are wired speakers, with binding posts.
_____

The funny thing is this: Wired speakers required only one set of speaker wires with the positive and negative terminals.
Wireless speakers required an AC powered chord, plus two interconnects for the DSP crunching numbers.

 

[NorthSky]

Wireless subwoofers are rather rare, and are not common among audiophiles and home theater cinéphiles.
They are in a very small minority; why is that?

The popularity in subs and speakers use wires, powered or not.

In the computer world wireless is the norm, as in telecommunication systems.
But in the audiophile world we aren't there just yet.

It is interesting, and I was intrigued by your above posts on wireless subwoofers.

 

[watchnerd]

Wireless subwoofers are rather rare, and are not common among audiophiles and home theater cinéphiles.
They are in a very small minority; why is that?

The popularity in subs and speakers use wires, powered or not.

In the computer world wireless is the norm, as in telecommunication systems.
But in the audiophile world we aren't there just yet.

It is interesting, and I was intrigued by your above posts on wireless subwoofers.

They're not all that rare -- several high end speaker makers off wireless subs.

My guess is because they haven't been reviewed much yet.

REL, certainly a high end sub manufacturer, makes a wireless kit for their pricey subs:

https://rel.net/shop/accessories/arrow/

https://rel.net/shop/accessories/longbow/

Martin Logan offers wireless subs and a connector kit:

https://www.martinlogan.com/dynamo/dynamo1000w.php

https://www.martinlogan.com/dynamo/dynamo700w.php

https://www.martinlogan.com/dynamo/swt-2.php

JL Audio offers a wireless transmitter for their subs:

http://www.jlaudio.com/home-audio-electronics-jlink

Velodyne offers subs with built-in wireless:

http://velodyneacoustics.com/subwoofers/wi-q-wireless-subwoofer-series.html

 

[watchnerd]

The funny thing is this: Wired speakers required only one set of speaker wires with the positive and negative terminals.
Wireless speakers required an AC powered chord, plus two interconnects for the DSP crunching numbers.

The Focus XD don't require physical digital connections, but they can be used that way. They can also be used just with a wifi antenna and a power cord.

Or were you referring to the Connect hub that connects to sources?

 

[NorthSky]

I understand very well that wireless speakers and subwoofers are available from hi-end audio manufacturers, but it is rather rare to see them in people's home and in audio circles/community audio forums.
Computer audiophiles use them more, and some pro music recording/monitoring/mixing/mastering facilities.

And you said it correctly; there are not many of them reviewed by professional audio reviewers/writers.

My local hi-end audio dealer has none.

 

[NorthSky]

The Focus XD don't require physical digital connections, but they can be used that way. They can also be used just with a wifi antenna and a power cord.

Or were you referring to the Connect hub that connects to sources?

No you are correct; the RCA digital and analog jacks are optional, an additional feature to facilitate versatility for people who desire to do so.
They still use more wires though for them, which negates somehow to a high degree the wireless advantage...that's what I was mainly referring to.
But yes, they only need one AC powered cord connected to a near AC outlet.

For hi-fi stereo duty it is simple, and not many ultra hi-end audiophiles use that type of connection in their professionally acoustically tuned hi-end music listening rooms.

In home theater rooms with fifteen speakers and six subwoofers you are required to have several AC outlets positioned all around...six speakers are in or on the ceiling. But true, those could be wired normally, with speaker cables.

 

[NWCgrad]

I am guessing two in rear of room was intended.

That would be correct. Typing on my phone should be avoided.

 

[watchnerd]

No you are correct; the RCA digital and analog jacks are optional, an additional feature to facilitate versatility for people who desire to do so.
They still use more wires though for them, which negates somehow to a high degree the wireless advantage...that's what I was mainly referring to.
But yes, they only need one AC powered cord connected to a near AC outlet.

For hi-fi stereo duty it is simple, and not many ultra hi-end audiophiles use that type of connection in their professionally acoustically tuned hi-end music listening rooms.

In home theater rooms with fifteen speakers and six subwoofers you are required to have several AC outlets positioned all around...six speakers are in or on the ceiling. But true, those could be wired normally, with speaker cables.

I'm not sure how many audiophiles use subwoofers for 2 channel music listening in any context, wireless or not.

The review magazines rarely mention using them.

And many audiophile separates don't even have a subwoofer output jack.

I think for 2 channel traditional audio purists:

1. Subwoofers are associated with home theater, which they look down on
2. Subwoofers are associated with gaming and PCs, which they look down on
3. Subwoofers are associated with DSP room correction, which they look down on

 

[NorthSky]

Subwoofers are used in few hi-end stereo systems.
And ultra hi-end ones have separate subwoofer towers.

 

[March Audio]

Tried out a couple of cheap subs over the past 2 weeks with the view to buy 4, one for each corner.

Paradigm PDR100 - 10" Ported sub, behaved as such - port tuned to 29 Hz and very sharp roll off below. Not very tight sounding with no tuning/adjustment options. Not very impressed, but it is crazy cheap.

Then I tried a B&W ASW608. I laughed when I saw it, tiny 8" sealed design.. ....and then I tried it. Sounded tight and extended. Then I measured it. I am surprised this box can do this. No doubt some EQ in there, but that doesnt appear detrimental. It has 3 extension settings an 2 EQ settings. This was the flattest. (A, A).

200w class D. Obviously there is going to be a SPL and distortion limit with these (I'll take stepped distortion measurements later), but the intention is to use 4 of them, so not going to be driven to distruction. So this is actually a very tempting purchase considering price/performance. Use with a bit of judicious EQ and thats pretty flat to 20Hz.

From Google

 

[watchnerd]

Tried out a couple of cheap subs over the past 2 weeks with the view to buy 4, one for each corner.

Paradigm PDR100 - 10" Ported sub, behaved as such - port tuned to 29 Hz and very sharp roll off below. Not very tight sounding with no tuning/adjustment options. Not very impressed, but it is crazy cheap.

Then I tried a B&W ASW608. I laughed when I saw it, tiny 8" sealed design......and the I tried it. Sounded tight and extended. Then I measured it. I am surprised this box can do this. No doubt some EQ in there, but that doesnt appear detrimental. It has 3 extension settings an 2 EQ settings. This was the flattest. (A, A).

200w class D. Obviously there is going to be a SPL and distortion limit with these (I'll take stepped distortion measurements later), but the intention is to use 4 of them, so not going to be driven to distruction. So this is actually a very tempting purchase considering price/performance. Use with a bit of judicious EQ and thats pretty flat to 20Hz.

View attachment 9210


View attachment 9211

View attachment 9212


From Google

Wow, it's small enough to fit into one of the cubby holes of the Ikea Kallax I use to store LP's:

 

[Blumlein 88]

Wow, it's small enough to fit into one of the cubby holes of the Ikea Kallax I use to store LP's:

I think you mean it is small enough to put four of them in this Ikea Kallax sub rack.

If I was a salesman, I would say that is 32 inches of fast, tight subwoofery.

Knowing about pi and stuff I would only claim 16 inch equivalence.

 

[watchnerd]

I think you mean it is small enough to put four of them in this Ikea Kallax sub rack.

If I was a salesman, I would say that is 32 inches of fast, tight subwoofery.

Knowing about pi and stuff I would only claim 16 inch equivalence.

Add some grill cloth and you can have:

http://www.ikeahackers.net/2016/03/ikea-kallax-mid-century-modern-hifi-console.html

 

[watchnerd]

I just realized I have one of these sitting in the garage, bought about 15+ years ago, hasn't been used since I stopped doing home theater over 10 years ago:

M&K MX-700. Sealed / slot loaded, push-pull 2x8" drivers, 200 watts (old school AB, not D, look at those fins), 20-200 Hz for some undefined SPL level.

Maybe I should get a 2nd one?