There is actually a format called DSD wide that is used in some studios: 8-bit, 2.8 MHz.I guess that's why studios use 8-bit and not 24-bit .....no, wait
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How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent?
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
The majority of DAC chips out there is only 5 or 6 bits 
Count Dacula
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24 bit is just 3x 8 bitand has absolutely nothing to do with noise in DACs nor anything I wrote. That is about bit depth and quantization noise.
So ... I will ask again... what would be the 'mechanism' for a DAC reducing performance over time and where is the evidence for this phenomenon ?
Where does '8-bit' come into play here ?
Also you made a remark about 5dB difference in noise so I my answer is about noise and noise spectra and how 5dB difference could well be audible.
I did not say anything about 8bit vs 24bit nor 16 bit vs 24bit nor about quantization noise nor about DS noise shaping nor about dither nor shaping of dither.
It was about noise levels and audibility thresholds and noise spectra, about microphone recordings and noise that comes with it.
What are ladder DACs?
ExPerfectionist
Active Member
R2R
Resistor ladder - Wikipedia
A resistor ladder is an electrical circuit made from repeating units of resistors, in specific configurations.
An R–2R ladder configuration is a simple and inexpensive way to perform digital-to-analog conversion (DAC), using repetitive arrangements of precise resistor networks in a ladder-like configuration.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
Adding that there is more than one way to make a ladder DAC as the traditional one can have 0-crossing distortion.
This can be solved by basically using 2 ladders (signed magnitude) or other trickery.
Ladder DACs usually have more distortion than DS DACs.
DS DACs also have ladder DACs in them (4 or 5 bits) this helps reduce the level of HF (shaped) noise before it is post-filtered.
This can be solved by basically using 2 ladders (signed magnitude) or other trickery.
Ladder DACs usually have more distortion than DS DACs.
DS DACs also have ladder DACs in them (4 or 5 bits) this helps reduce the level of HF (shaped) noise before it is post-filtered.
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Everything said in just two words.
Harley gets paid by makeing up hearing differences. How could he not hear them.
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Everything that is being said here could be correct. IDK. I f you believe that Robert Harley is just a paid shill then his opinion is meaningless. If, on the other hand you analyze his explanation as to why people who focus on SINAD while not wrong for those qualities are completely missing the phase errors since while the human ear only has a certain limited amount of sensitivity to SINAD in general, it has orders of magnitude greater sensitivity to phase shifts. Maybe he's just a shill as I said or maybe he is on to something.
Please, I never want to offend anyone nor do I wish to be pummeled.
That’s just more FUD:
Does Phase Distortion/Shift Matter in Audio? (no*)
A viewer of my videos and member he suggested that I do a video commenting on a video that Paul McGown did on audibility of phase shifts. Here is Paul's video which was really about a different question (why we need wideband amplifiers) but turned it into phase being an audible problem: Here...
www.audiosciencereview.com
^^^
What voodoo said and linked for us.
Think about it, he/they reviewers need to keep products coming for
What about amps? Once they are past a certain point unless broken or designed purposely broken they still wax eloquently with audiophile bs terminology. Not one of them took the prize money for the 1 million dollar amp challenge. They didn’t try because the emperor has no clothes. They couldn’t risk losing the gravy train. Yet Harley and his ilk still trundle along vomiting their word salad.
Why in the world bother reading those rags?
You have a DAC with different digital filters right? They have massively different phase shifts themselves (not phase noise) as you can see below. You can try setting and A/bing Minimum Phase vs Linear Phase yourself and perform a DBT ABX test yourself. Be mindful of bias so perform this test in the most honest way you can
BTW, unlike the Phase Distortion video with Amir where one channel has phase shifts from increasing frequency, this test is symmetrical phase between both channels. Also, both filters are sharp roll off i.e. identical FR on FFT spectrum.
BTW, below too you can see phase shifts from the minimum phase filter since the plot is not a straight line but rather slightly curved.
AI calculates that if you are listening at 10 feet, a 0.1dB increase in level occurs if you move your head about 1 3/8 inches toward the speakers.
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antcollinet
Grand Contributor
You know what they say about opinions, don't you?
Bring evidence - not opinions.
antcollinet
Grand Contributor
Are you sure it got the calculation right, because I caught an AI stating that 3,448,620/65536 was aprox 100 a couple of weeks ago, due to a "mental slip"
:Then later it was even crap at explain it's own errors.:
And finally:
No.
But the reasoning and formulas "look right", and the answer "looks about right".
Sometimes it doesn't.
In this case AI got it right.
For spherical wave in a free field, the sound pressure is proportional to 1/r.
Therefore, the ratio of the sound pressure at 10 ft and 10 ft 1.375 in is: (10*12 + 1.375) / (10*12) = 1.01146
Convert to dB = 20 log10( 1.01146 ) = 0.099 dB ⫽
JSmith
Master Contributor
In the old days magazines occasionally did blind tests - amps, CD players, even speakers were compared hidden behind a screen.
The outcomes were always as measurements predicted. You don't see them doing that anymore. Why is that?
They could easily set up blind tests to show that they can hear these phase shifts and time domain errors and all the other things (power cables, grounding boxes) that they claim they can - but they don't. Why is that? If they can show audibility, everyone wins.
Instead we get 'System not resolving enough', 'you can't afford it so you denigrate it', 'We all hear differently' and other lame excuses.
They're salesmen. You can't blame a salesman for trying to sell, but the educated customer should try to verify the claims rather than just believe them.
MatrixS2000
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Crap, we should all run and hide now - it thinks it’s human….
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