How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent?

[Beave]

Hi Don, I see that you have referenced a video from Paul at PS Audio and another video from Goldensound.

I've seen your academic background and appreciate your attempts to understand the science of audio. But I suggest you be a bit more discerning in which sources you consider to be trustworthy. Paul and Goldensound are not good sources. They are self-proclaimed experts in audio, the equivalent of the naturopath who makes a youtube video showing you the harms of vaccines, or the "scientist" who makes the youtube video giving their "evidence" for the flat earth. You are being misled by bad sources.

As an academic, please use better sources for your education in audio measurements.

 

[donrleonard]

Hi Don, I see that you have referenced a video from Paul at PS Audio and another video from Goldensound.

I've seen your academic background and appreciate your attempts to understand the science of audio. But I suggest you be a bit more discerning in which sources you consider to be trustworthy. Paul and Goldensound are not good sources. They are self-proclaimed experts in audio, the equivalent of the naturopath who makes a youtube video showing you the harms of vaccines, or the "scientist" who makes the youtube video giving their "evidence" for the flat earth. You are being misled by bad sources.

As an academic, please use better sources for your education in audio measurements.

Thanks for the polite note, Beave. In my explorations I did indeed draw on folks in the industry. But there were also peer-reviewed double blind tests conducted at McGill that Amir summarized. And of course there are the blind tests done by others like Archimago which clearly demonstrated that under proper listening conditions (headphones), half of all folks could tell that the well-measuring Apple dongle was the worst of the three DACs.

But I digress, my profession also has its tight-nit enclaves of ontology and epistemology. Such is the nature of science.
'
Good day, sir.

 

[voodooless]

I was able to find an answer to my question in a highly informative video about the strengths and weaknesses of 1-2 dimensional audio measurements.

Here is a 20-page topic on it:

Is SINAD important? - "Myths" about measurements! [Video YT]

GoldenSound talks through some myths (according to them) and misconceptions about audio/hifi measurements. The Headphone Show NB FOLLOWING SUMMARY ADDED BY MODS COPIED FROM A POST DOWN THREAD FROM THE OP . The video is disappointing in reality, but I thought it could open up debate In...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It ain’t pretty…

 

[oleg87]

But I digress, my profession also has its tight-nit enclaves of ontology and epistemology. Such is the nature of science.

Probably too much to hope for that your profession also has a cadre of clueless laymen aspiring to educate you about what you do for a living

 

[voodooless]

Archimago which clearly demonstrated that under proper listening conditions (headphones), half of all folks could tell that the well-measuring Apple dongle was the worst of the three DACs.

That is not al the conclusion.

 

[Mart68]

Another one who's nothing like as smart as he thinks he is

 

[Old_School_Brad]

That is not al the conclusion.

Indeed. The assumption is a bit off. While some headphone users could tell the difference, most people didn’t find the differences between the DACs that noticeable or worth the extra cost. The results show that sound quality is more about performance than price, and it depends on the setup.

 

[oleg87]

With all due respect to Archimago, whatever the results are, the limits on controls make them a fun little curiosity at best, with no serious validity.

Mr Don would probably serve himself better actually loading the recordings into the Foobar2000 abx plugin for himself. But as usual these people don’t actually want to learn anything, just bloviate about all the same tired nonsense.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Bloviate, audio, and enrichment of the language that I've spoken for 80 years. Thank you oleg.

 

[BDWoody]

I have come to realize that this is a well-recognized characteristic of ASR within the hobby. It’s unfortunate that such behavior is allowed to persist, as there is such a wealth of knowledge and experience here

It's a shame you got so stuck on being right that you couldn't take advantage of that wealth of knowledge available free for the asking.

Happy trails.

 

[Old_School_Brad]

With all due respect to Archimago, whatever the results are, the limits on controls make them a fun little curiosity at best, with no serious validity.

Mr Don would probably serve himself better actually loading the recordings into the Foobar2000 abx plugin for himself. But as usual these people don’t actually want to learn anything, just bloviate about all the same tired nonsense.

Absolutely right. I also find his conclusions page a bit vague.

Fortunately, it's easy to test personal thresholds and make an individual decision.

 

[antcollinet]

It is not the multi-tone chart that allows us to detect even- and odd-order harmonics within a distortion profile, but rather the FFT.

The limitation of the FFT, of course, is that it can only evaluate the harmonic structure of a piece of audio equipment against a single fundamental frequency—typically 1khz.

Where is the head->desk emoticon when you need it.

It's hard not to be vicariously embarrassed.

 

[Muddywaters]

Pity, there was no attempt as pointed out ^^^ easily accomplished with an abx in foobar. Or delving into the huge resources available here free for education. Or reading this thread from beginning to end.

Pity the poor preschoolers faced with his education in critical thinking.

 

[danadam]

Where is the head->desk emoticon when you need it.

I've seen this:

Though I've read it was (ab)used to imply a naughtier gesture

 

[AdamG]

I've seen this:

What. It’s low effort pushups. We had Boots that would try to use their head and neck to mimic that they were performing Pushups as directed. It never worked and they always got caught. But we would laugh about it behind closed doors how creative slackers could be. A neck up…

 

[danadam]

Though I've read it was (ab)used to imply a naughtier gesture

Changing the timing of the animation helps, I think:

or (120 bytes more):

 

[welwynnick]

Another one who's nothing like as smart as he thinks he is

He is not alone.

 

[MaxBuck]

Another one who's nothing like as smart as he thinks he is

He's one of my tribe!

Though in my case it manifests differently.

 

[Mart68]

He's one of my tribe!

Though in my case it manifests differently.

A good man know his limitations

 

[traind]

This forum can be a bit rough on people like Don and I'm not sure it really helps in the long run.

In that spirit I will hold back on my detailed MIT, Georgia Tech and Princeton references and response to his 'climate denier' call-out, seeing as he is already lying bruised and bloodied on the forum sidewalk.