Regardless of how complex the mix is, to the DAC it's still just voltage varying with time. Suspect there's another reason there.
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How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent?
- Thread starter Willhelm_Scream
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Miguelón
Major Contributor
I think is not necessary now, but I will consider.
I didn’t know how WiiM Ultra can divide by some numbers the voltage output without analogue controls until recent dates
Nothing there I wouldn't expect. I think 99% of the audiophilliac hand wringing about sound quality of modern electronics is utterly pointless.Excuse me by bothering you with the same topic, but actually I’m listening to Dire Straits great songs with the lowest gain and the highest digital values I can reach reasonably: 86 dB @ 1 V rms and WiiM Ultra limited to 1 Vrms so I operate on the -20 dBFS range.
And it sounds phenomenal, I know “phenomenal” is mot scientific, but since is free tax to adjust my gear as I want, I can let me to be somewhat irrational and enjoying the balanced clean sound from my speakers
Nearly all systems will sound "phenomenal" as long as the speaker/room interaction (together with whatever treatment and/or DSP is applied) will allow them to. Especially of course, with Dire Straits.
My speakers cost me £600 (Though are supported by a good Sub). My room is small. My amplification is an AVR. My (music) sources are laptop or vinyl. I've spent some time with Audessey setup using Audessey one scripts.
It sounds phenomenal.
Many so called audiophiles at other places would tell me my system is garbage. Or "Mid Fi" at best. I would happily continue listening to my music, knowing they are idiots.
Glad you are enjoying the sound.
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To find out.
Try it with digital attenuation. Can you hear noise (hiss) at your listening position during periods of silence in the music?
If not - you are golden.
If you can, is the noise loud enough to bother you when listening to music.
If not you are fine.
If it does, consider passive attenuators connected at the input to the amp (not at the output of the DAC).
I love that personally. Especially if you can get them round for a listen and they're blown away. You can actually see them trying to reconcile everything they think they know with what they are hearing.
I said to one 'It's just good speakers in a good acoustic, that's the whole thing.' But no dice, he reckoned I must just have really clean mains power. Horse at water, still no drinky.
Miguelón
Major Contributor
Humm, difficult to evaluate, Genelecs show “hiss” in all of the 80xx lineup whatever the signal strength or the input gain,
I don’t know why, doesn’t bother me so much, but seem independent of the input.
Actually sound very good with the 1V output and the -10 dB sensitivity adjustment. It looks a little bit limit when listening low quality classical music that tend to be recorder at low volumes so I push the DAC near 95% volume.
But since I’m using only one speaker and waiting for the other, it will be ok when raising those 3 to 6 dB adding a second source
Miguelón
Major Contributor
No hiss at all at actual levels, but a lot of it when trying high gain combinations.
What improve a lot with low gain combination is mid highs and highs that tend to be irritating: violins and piano upper keys. That made me think more in distortion than in noise, but as I remember ultimately THD came also from quantization errors or am I wrong?
Also I think, by common sense and some experience, that having an active monitor with RCA connections at 86 dB @ 1 V rms when my average listening levels are around 70-75 dB SPL, than keeping the same active monitor which can only goes to 94 dB @ 1 V rms and only have XLR balanced inputs.
The most rational decision is G Three, which was actually my dilemma (and sorry again for going out of the thread), since if has both RCA and XLR inputs and if needed I can switch sensitivity to 96 dB @ 1 V rms
They are more adapted to home listening, or at least at my listening levels. Price is equal, measured equal, SPL is equal, all is equal except inputs and sensitivity
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Part right. Quantisation errors can be distortion (but not harmonic distortion - so not a part of THD), but when properly dithered as part of the quantisation process it is effectively converted to noise, similar to tape hiss, but at inaudible levels
See the monty video to see this in action.
DSJR
Master Contributor
My first introduction to this wake-up call, came in the mid 90s when I heard a variety of known and unknown speakers at wildly different price points, sound equally excellent. The room (a converted tandem-garage) had been very carefully set up by a pro acoustician - and it showed, the speakers in a more 'live' end and the listener in the more 'treated' end, as heard in a concert hall. In this room, it worked a treat!!! For our UK readers, I'd NEVER heard Heybrook HB1s sound so good - and I'd done countless dems and sales of this model, from sweeter-toned first launch versions to the final and rather more 'spiteful' late production (I gather they had to change the bass-mid driver in production).
I went to the water a few times and refused to take a drink.
One time I recall a system that belonged to a musician, a very talented multi-instrumentalist.
Portable CD player, old Rotel amp and some 1970s KEFS. Blew away my system. He would laugh about cables and the magic of analogue, and general audiophilia, he just regarded it all as nonsense.
I didn't listen to him at the time despite the evidence he was right being audibly obvious.
You'd be amazed at how many people claim that (with no evidence, of course).
This one? No issues here. Some recording/mix choices, but clear, voice is good, mix is legible. Acoustic guitar track is a little thin, probably by choice. Hearing almost as much strumming noise as chords.
Equipment: Tidal->Roon->Raspberry Pi with ROPIEEXL->RME ADI-2->NAD c298->Harbeth SHL5+(AE) in the setup in my profile pic. Same cat in same place behind my head.
My Blue Jeans cables must have fixed it
Miguelón
Major Contributor
Monty video? Can you send me the link?
I’ve been watching one of hims about stair-step myth and dither but cannot find the one about harmonics.
Aliasing, BTW, is present in our magnetic resonance machine (I should guess it just by the fact that uses analogue to digital conversion, but was surprised to listening the technician speaking about the AA filter).
solderdude
Grand Contributor
That was the video he mentioned.
In an ADC (recording side) we need/have an anti-aliasing filter.
In a DAC there is (should be) an anti-imaging filter a.k.a. reconstruction filter.
There are DACs that do not have one or one that does not do a particularly good job. These are usually liked by audiophiles because they have some 'weird' roll-off in the treble.
Neither produces harmonics, nor do attenuators produce harmonics.
In an ADC (recording side) we need/have an anti-aliasing filter.
In a DAC there is (should be) an anti-imaging filter a.k.a. reconstruction filter.
There are DACs that do not have one or one that does not do a particularly good job. These are usually liked by audiophiles because they have some 'weird' roll-off in the treble.
Neither produces harmonics, nor do attenuators produce harmonics.
Miguelón
Major Contributor
I know that now, before was reading comments in which the writers confounded “non distorted and noise free” sound with “boring and lack of tone”. Many people like crystal highs or “crispy”, I guess they are artifacts by incorrect filters.
I remember a portable Ifi DAC I had, can be the Ifi Go Bar if my memory works well: in the side had little marks to change filters, one of them was “no filter”. It hurt the ears…
solderdude
Grand Contributor
They are not artifacts of incorrect filters.
Artifacts are too much image signals (that should not be there but are inaudible but the driver does reproduce those and they are anything but 'euphonic'.
Also these filters generally are sloping and thus have less 'crystal highs'.
Correct filters do not add harmonics nor change the frequency nor phase response.
Artifacts are too much image signals (that should not be there but are inaudible but the driver does reproduce those and they are anything but 'euphonic'.
Also these filters generally are sloping and thus have less 'crystal highs'.
Correct filters do not add harmonics nor change the frequency nor phase response.
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