How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent?

[MaxBuck]

It is a possible real thing so not semantic. What it shows is I think your idea of static and dynamic is semantic in the way your are describing it. Do you consider multitones static or dynamic?

A sine wave varies in every moment in time.

The fact that a sine wave varies in amplitude over time does not render it a dynamic phenomenon, if the frequency is invariant. Invariancy over time is the key element.

 

[SIY]

Chemical equilibrium is constant over the time domain so long as pressure and temperature are also kept constant.

You just failed my thermodynamics course.

 

[MaxBuck]

It is? I sorta thought it was proportional to sine(16pi x t)?

I'm not sure where you're going with this. A sine wave that is invariant in both amplitude and frequency is static.

 

[SIY]

The fact that a sine wave varies in amplitude over time does not render it a dynamic phenomenon, if the frequency is invariant. Invariancy over time is the key element.

That is the most garbled thing I've read today, but it's still early afternoon.

 

[MaxBuck]

You just failed my thermodynamics course.

Trust me, I didn't fail thermodynamics. I aced it.

 

[voodooless]

None of my questions arise out of a belief that "DACs have issues with strange signals." That's not relevant to my inquiry.

Why not? This is essentially what it boils down to: the premise often is: DAC have no issues generating sines, but complex dynamic music is where they fail.

 

[SIY]

I'm not sure where you're going with this. A sine wave that is invariant in both amplitude and frequency is static.

Then your definition of static needs to change. The signal is time dependent.

 

[MaxBuck]

That is the most garbled thing I've read today, but it's still early afternoon.

Maybe instead of insults you could try to clarify your earlier comments. This response is not worthy of you.

 

[MaxBuck]

Why not? This is essentially what it boils down to: the premise often is: DAC have no issues generating sines, but complex dynamic music is where they fail.

Where have I used the term "failure?" I haven't. Straw man.

 

[Blumlein 88]

The fact that a sine wave varies in amplitude over time does not render it a dynamic phenomenon, if the frequency is invariant. Invariancy over time is the key element.

Think about how an amplifier clips with a large sine wave. Are you telling me it is static? Part of the time the amplifier is reproducing with low distortion the sine wave and then part of the time it is not.

 

[SIY]

Maybe instead of insults you could try to clarify your earlier comments. This response is not worthy of you.

OK, so try again. An 8 Hz sine wave is time variant. So again, define what exactly you mean by "static" and "dynamic."

 

[MaxBuck]

Then your definition of static needs to change. The signal is time dependent.

You are limiting your discussion to the idea that amplitude varies in the time domain, which is obviously correct. But where I differ can be explained by an analogy: a vehicle traveling at constant velocity. Its position in XYZ obviously varies, but there is no acceleration. One can discuss the vehicle in both static and dynamic terms. Measuring its position in XYZ is a dynamic measurement; its acceleration, though, is static at zero.

 

[SIY]

But where I differ can be explained by an analogy: a vehicle traveling at constant velocity. Its position in XYZ obviously varies, but there is no acceleration.

Sigh. This is why I asked for a DEFINITION of what your term means and specifically said "not an analogy."

 

[MaxBuck]

OK, so try again. An 8 Hz sine wave is time variant. So again, define what exactly you mean by "static" and "dynamic."

The amplitude of an 8-Hz sine wave is indeed time variant. But if the amplitude and frequency both remain constant, I see the signal as static.

Perhaps the issue is that audio measurements can be both dynamic and static at the same time, depending upon what one is measuring.

 

[voodooless]

Where have I used the term "failure?" I haven't. Straw man.

I know you didn’t! Your missing the point. I’m describing the reasoning that is the basis of doubting the proficiency of the so called static measurement we have in our DAC reviews.

 

[voodooless]

But if the amplitude and frequency both remain constant, I see the signal as static.

Explain why this would be a problem?

 

[oleg87]

I'd love to see an explanation from one of the many experts here as to why the measurements we see here are in fact sufficient to describe amplifier and DAC dynamic behavior, as apposed to static behavior.

This is what a multitone test looks like in the time domain. Is there any reason to think a non-deterministic input would provide a more searching test of "dynamic" performance?

 

[MaxBuck]

Sigh. This is why I asked for a DEFINITION of what your term means and specifically said "not an analogy."

Definition: static is invariant with time, whereas dynamic varies with time. In engineering one studies statics and dynamics as systems in this manner. That's why dynamics involves acceleration (unequal force), whereas dynamics involves none (balanced forces).

By the way, apparently this is proving exhausting for you. Take a hiatus if you need to.

 

[MaxBuck]

View attachment 368883
This is what a multitone test looks like in the time domain. Is there any reason to think a non-deterministic input would provide a more searching test of "dynamic" performance?

You have finally provided the explanation I sought. Graphical examples are SO much more helpful than self-important insults, I find.

 

[SIY]

whereas dynamic varies with time.

An 8 Hz sine wave varies in time. V is proportional to sine(16pi x t). If it goes between the limits of the DAC, it sweeps every single digital value.