How can bogus claims and inferior audio thrive in a competitive market?

[watchnerd]

This is interesting...

I'm a digital guy, so my interest is in well mastered DDD recordings. Or well mastered ADD ones. But they have to be well mastered, which is sometimes a challenge in contemporary music.

I make an exception for classical.

The downsides of classical on LP are so extreme that I'd rather have a digital version* of a 1950s-1960s classical recording (e.g. Living Stereo, Mercury Living Presence) than an LP copy.

Also, the concept of album/recording is somewhat arbitrary for composers from hundreds of years ago. Whereas jazz classics recorded in the >1950s were conceived of as albums with the recording medium in mind.

*I also own 15 IPS live recordings of classical made in the pre-digial era, mostly from the 1970s. Tape is not nearly PITA LP is for classical.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Yes, once you learn a bit about what happens in recording, and worse processing after recording you realize most of the audiophile concerns are barely myths. Closer to fiction born of an imagination though an imagination of good intentions. The Absolute Sound, realism, fidelity, all of that stuff with 99% of recordings simply isn't possible at all. Audiophiles worry about straight wire with gain transparency, and recording guys may stuff a mic in a trashcan to get a neat sound on a bass guitar.

Absolutely.
The only hope one can have of getting a "realistic" experience at home is listening to a recording of acoustic unamplified performance, preferably live. All the rest is chosen sound effects by the recording engineer, hopefully endorsed by the artist, which one can hope to reproduce at home so it sounds like it did to them.
The most realistic sounding recordings I own are simply miked classical and folk music recorded without dicking about with anything other than the position of the microphones.
Some of the Unplugged and acoustic recordings sound pretty good too, but by no means all...

When people might have automatic weapons, you don't want to risk saying the wrong thing to them.

Not a problem round here

 

[Julf]

There seems to be some idea that belief in extreme audiophile subjectivism and belief in audio voodoo is a slippery slope that will lead to belief in Flat Earth Societies, reptilian overlords, and other tin foil hat stuff.

Belief in audio voodoo will probably on it's own lead to belief in other tin foil hat stuff, but they are both indications of the same thing - science denial. By the way, belief in Flat Earth Societies is not unrealistic - Flat Earth societies do actually exist.

It's just not that serious, people.

It's a hobby.

For you, yes. For others here it is a profession, and something we have spent decades studying and researching. Don't you think archeologists are somewhat annoyed and irritated by creationists?

 

[BDWoody]

When people might have automatic weapons, you don't want to risk saying the wrong thing to them.

An armed society is a polite society...

 

[Wombat]

An armed society is a polite society...

I don't consider being confronted with a gun as particularly polite.

 

[BDWoody]

I don't consider being confronted with a gun as particularly polite. View attachment 37080

Me neither. Glad we agree.

 

[Killingbeans]

Hmmm.....

Looking at my system, where all costs are what I paid, not what things retail for....

Speakers (includes subs and stands): 30%
Electronics (includes integrated amp/dac/streamer): 28%
Analog (includes TT, tonearm, cartridges, headshells, SUT, tube phono stage, tubes*, reel-to-reel deck): 43%

Headphones and cables are in single digit percentages relative to the rest of the system, so I don't bother counting them.

I guess I need to spend more on speakers.

Interestingly....

System: LP Collection Ratio: ~2:1

Or maybe I should spend more on records....

If you sell all the analog stuff, speakers and electronics will be roughly 50/50.

Just saying

 

[KozmoNaut]

An armed society is a polite society...

A fearful society.

 

[BDWoody]

A fearful society.

Edit: No hidden agenda in my posts, and in retrospect maybe my comments meant to be taken as mostly tongue in cheek could be easily misconstrued...
I figure this pic shows how most picture me at this point!
Cheers all. Live and let live.

 

[digicidal]

I don't really see any difference between my guns and my audio gear. I collect, use, and modify both only for my own personal enjoyment. You can say that one of them having potential lethality makes them very different - but I ask you... have you ever actually listened to Yoko Ono? That sort of thing makes you want a ballistic vest for your ears!

In neither case would I consider it moral or ethical to use them for the purposes of coercion, manipulation or hatred - but in both cases I consider them to be a hobby which also potentially keeps me safer from the worst aspects of society. Thankfully one can be enjoyed in my home at any time without risk of injury to those around (unless I boost the subs too much I guess). But the other one is much more fun if you're 30 miles from town and being threatened by a bunch of beverage containers and melons.

 

[ahofer]

I don't really see any difference between my guns and my audio gear. I collect, use, and modify both only for my own personal enjoyment. You can say that one of them having potential lethality makes them very different - but I ask you... have you ever actually listened to Yoko Ono? That sort of thing makes you want a ballistic vest for your ears!

In neither case would I consider it moral or ethical to use them for the purposes of coercion, manipulation or hatred - but in both cases I consider them to be a hobby which also potentially keeps me safer from the worst aspects of society. Thankfully one can be enjoyed in my home at any time without risk of injury to those around (unless I boost the subs too much I guess). But the other one is much more fun if you're 30 miles from town and being threatened by a bunch of beverage containers and melons.

Are guns sold based on BS subjective parameters, passed off as science?

BTW, guns also seem to have some non-functional criteria important to buyers. Look threatening (with military look & feel), make a big noise?

 

[ahofer]

As for speakers/system, I'm at about 80%. 90% is probably more appropriate. Should have bought my electronics second-hand.

 

[BDWoody]

But the other one is much more fun if you're 30 miles from town and being threatened by a bunch of beverage containers and melons.

Melons are bastards...

 

[BDWoody]

Are guns sold based on BS subjective parameters, passed off as science?

BTW, guns also seem to have some non-functional criteria important to buyers. Look threatening (with military look & feel), make a big noise?

Ummm...guns are sold and promoted based on making a big noise? So, a non-threatening gun that doesn't look 'scary' is better...

I'm not even sure what a military feel might be... There are weight advantages, etc. which aren't subjective at all. I'd say they are more promoted based on an objective set of measurements, for subjective purposes.

 

[ahofer]

Ummm...guns are sold and promoted based on making a big noise? So, a non-threatening gun that doesn't look 'scary' is better...

I'm not even sure what a military feel might be... There are weight advantages, etc. which aren't subjective at all. I'd say they are more promoted based on an objective set of measurements, for subjective purposes.

Well, My Dad made sure I could hit a target fairly well, but that's the limit of my shooting knowledge. But you see guns with camouflage and extra-rugged features that probably don't have an application for the weekend game hunter or target shooter, not to mention shells that are...overkill.. as well. As for noise, I don't know, but one does hear people go on about the distinctive report of certain guns (Uzis, what was the Soviet one?).

 

[BDWoody]

Well, My Dad made sure I could hit a target fairly well, but that's the limit of my shooting knowledge. But you see guns with camouflage and extra-rugged features that probably don't have an application for the weekend game hunter or target shooter, not to mention shells that are...overkill.. as well. As for noise, I don't know, but one does hear people go on about the distinctive report of certain guns (Uzis, what was the Soviet one?).

AK-47 possibly?

I understand what you are saying, but given how wide the potential uses are...from self defense, to entertainment, to hunting and survival, there are options that can fill them all.
I'm not trying to pick nits here...but each caliber and load has an application that makes sense, or made sense when it was developed. Hunting rabbits with a .50 bmg wouldn't make sense. But neither wouldn't hunting buffalo with a .22.

 

[watchnerd]

The most realistic sounding recordings I own

The most realistic recording I own is one I made in my own listening room of me playing bass, the mic in the listening position.

As a demo / test, it's not a silver bullet, but it's pretty effective for tuning speaker placement.

I'm kind of surprised more people don't do it. It's not hard to do.

 

[BDWoody]

The most realistic recording I own is one I made in my own listening room of me playing bass, the mic in the listening position.

As a demo / test, it's not a silver bullet, but it's pretty effective for tuning speaker placement.

I'm kind of surprised more people don't do it. It's not hard to do.

Great idea...
Where are you in relation to the mic/speakers when you play? Do you make a recording from each speaker location, or multiple locations around the room?

 

[watchnerd]

I'm not trying to pick nits here...but each caliber and load has an application that makes sense, or made sense when it was developed. Hunting rabbits with a .50 bmg wouldn't make sense. But neither wouldn't hunting buffalo with a .22.

Typical home defense shotgun load is birdshot, birdshot, buckshot. In that order.

 

[watchnerd]

Great idea...
Where are you in relation to the mic/speakers when you play? Do you make a recording from each speaker location, or multiple locations around the room?

I've done it two ways.

Using the acoustic bass, I stand half way between the speakers, and about 3 feet in front of them.

Using electric bass, I put the bass amp in the same location as acoustic bass. That time, I recorded a loop into my Macbook and then set it for playback through the amp. I sat in the listening positioning.

In both cases the mic was in the listening seat; I only used one location.