How can a Ne5322 sound so much better than a Ne5532...???

[paologramaglia123]

Good day everybody, Sorry for bothering you with such small talking.

I happened to swap the couple of NE5532 found in my humble 40€ Chinese portable DAC/H.Amp, but just because I had bought a couple of (hopefully) Philips for 3€ in a sleepy moment (I personally admire that brand: never a bad or faulty product) and I had to clear the mess in the room. No fancier 1612 or Muse, just the same plainy good ol' componentto be found in every single production console eversince "The Casale Monferrato Concert".

They don't look alike, for the old ones have rounded corners and the markings (TI?) are blurred and worn out. The originals were maybe used components? Found in a seasonal water flow? But that doesnt seem so solid a footing for a business.

The fact Is that the "Philips" sound soooo much better, from the onset, in every single possible aspect of the performance. I've been even able to distinctively witness their subsequent improvement during the first weeks, with budget Akg cans! The difference originals/spares was so damn striking as to be confounding to me, also because the originals displayed no fault at all prior tò the substitution and even a relatively good sound.

Hopefully these faulty amplifiers don't get onboard ICBMs...

If someone were so kind as to throw light on this subjective mystery (for the majority of you will plainy state that I have been dreaming), thanks in advance!

 

[DVDdoug]

The fact Is that the "Philips" sound soooo much better, from the onset, in every single possible aspect of the performance.

Noise, distortion, and frequency response? (With electronics, those are the 3 characteristics of "sound quality"*). If there were a REAL difference it would likely be noise, but I think you would have said "lower hiss", or something specific. See Audiophoolery.

And sighted tests are unreliable, especially if there is nothing obvious & specific, like "no bass", or "loud hum", or "nothing out of the left channel", etc. The listening tests should be blind, repeatable, and statistically valid when repeated. What is a blind ABX test?



* There are a couple of more characteristics with speakers and room acoustics, which the Audiphoolery article talks about. And things get "strange" with lossy compression (MP3, etc.) because the distortion, noise, and tiny temporal artifacts change from moment-to-moment with program material and they don't show-up will in traditional measurements.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

One or other may be fake. The only way to understand this is to measure both.

 

[Koeitje]

Could be anything. Could be fake and not meeting specs, there could be differences in output levels, or perhaps there is simply an actual difference in specs or its all just placebo. Without a proper level-matched ABX you will never know for sure if you are actually hearing a difference, Even if measurements show a difference, that still doesn't mean its audible.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Fake 5532s do in fact seem to exist (and a cheap Chinese DAC would be prime candidate for shipping with some). You wouldn't think it would be worth it given that 5532s aren't a super expensive part, but some results I've seen seemed to indicate remarked 4558s. (That's like, 15 cents vs. 50 cents a pop or so?) Anything even more brazen like LM358s would be too obvious, I guess.

 

[Ktacos]

I've swapped out 5532's in three amps so far, all the same amp, a07. Some chips were definitely fake, others it was nearly impossible to tell. The end result was basically no difference in audibility. Didn't measure because if I can't hear that sort of change then it's probably not there or worth the effort.

 

[restorer-john]

One or other may be fake. The only way to understand this is to measure both.

The 'Philips' 5532 looks fake to me, as does the other "TI". They could be anything. The genuine "TI" 5532s have an equal positioning of the two lines with respect to the centre of the package- horizontally. And the "3" is incorrect- the TI 3 is flat across the top. Fake most likely.

I can't recall ever seeing a laser etched Philips NE5532 in the early 2000s (0217 date code). They were white silk screened when coming out of the Thailand fab plants. Then sold to NXP and the Philips logo was gonski.

Prior to that of course, they were Signetics (S) branded IIRC.

I wouldn't trust anything from China- there's simply way too many fakes of everything semiconductor.

 

[Doodski]

The 'Philips' 5532 looks fake to me, as does the other "TI". They could be anything. The genuine "TI" 5532s have an equal positioning of the two lines with respect to the centre of the package- horizontally. And the "3" is incorrect- the TI 3 is flat across the top. Fake most likely.

I can't recall ever seeing a laser etched Philips NE5532 in the early 2000s (0217 date code). They were white silk screened when coming out of the Thailand fab plants. Then sold to NXP and the Philips logo was gonski.

Prior to that of course, they were Signetics (S) branded IIRC.

I wouldn't trust anything from China- there's simply way too many fakes of everything semiconductor.

Lol... You just blow me away with the knowledge you have packed away in that brain of yours...LoL.

 

[Hayabusa]

The 'Philips' 5532 looks fake to me, as does the other "TI". They could be anything. The genuine "TI" 5532s have an equal positioning of the two lines with respect to the centre of the package- horizontally. And the "3" is incorrect- the TI 3 is flat across the top. Fake most likely.

I can't recall ever seeing a laser etched Philips NE5532 in the early 2000s (0217 date code). They were white silk screened when coming out of the Thailand fab plants. Then sold to NXP and the Philips logo was gonski.

Prior to that of course, they were Signetics (S) branded IIRC.

I wouldn't trust anything from China- there's simply way too many fakes of everything semiconductor.

Philips had acquired Signetics and I think they continued to make these opamps (NE55**) with the Signetics brand.

 

[Chrispy]

These are OPs?

 

[Hayabusa]

These are OPs?

yes

 

[Doodski]

These are OPs?

Yes they are dual OP amps. There are also quad OP amp packages available

 

[Doodski]

@Chrispy OP amps also come in different sizes and packages as can be seen in this image.

 

[Chrispy]

Still, when does this sort of substitution make any sense?

 

[restorer-john]

Philips had acquired Signetics and I think they continued to make these opamps (NE55**) with the Signetics brand.

Signetics became a wholly owned subsiduary of North American Philips in the mid 70s. Signetics was spun off in the mid 90s. But the "S" Signetics ICs continued for quite a while AFAIK.

A genuine NE-5532 from the Philips/Signetics era has a pair of back to back protection diodes across the differential inputs. You can test with a multimeter on diode test to determine if they are present (pins 2-3 and pins 6-7) or not and that can tell you with reasonable certainty if the chip is genuine or fake, especially when the date codes are taken into account. Look at the schematic below.

From my 1992 Philips-Signetics data handbook- general purpose linear ICs.

But, I've had some recent TI 'genuine' 5532s where they don't appear to have the internal protection diodes...