How "bad" must a Speaker be for normies to notice?

[AwesomeSauce2015]

Personally, I think it all depends, but, answering your questions:

1. Most "lifestyle" speakers choose a boosted bass, and either a flat-ish or slightly boosted top end. This is supported by research as we know that the "smiley-face" response gives a more impressive sound at first listen. Therefore, we can probably say that "the industry" thinks people like a slightly boosted bass, and a slightly boosted treble. However, I do not think that anyone thinks that consumers want crazy treble boosts (ie: "added brightness on top (of the smiley-face)").

2. I wasn't around, lol. Coming back to my point about the smiley face sounding "impressive", we can probably say that yes, smiley-face would have sold more back then. Nowadays, with most people buying based off internet reviews, it is probably different, but I am not the person to answer this.

3. You would be suprised. In my experience, as long as the system isn't obviously distorting, and gets loud enough, people don't really care about the performance, on the bad side.
Yes, the average person can recognize when something sounds "good", and if something really sucks they will notice. However, most people will probably just tune it out, and ignore the bad sound, unless they are intentionally listening to it, like a live band or presentation. But the average person won't just recoil and say "this sucks", like I do on a regular basis at work, where a few systems really, really suck (ie, nothing above 10khz).

4. No idea. I would say that soundbars, lifestyle speakers (Sonos, JBL bluetooth, "smart speakers", etc) are big right now, and headphones / earbuds / IEMs are too. However, there is still an "average person" market for "real" speakers, like towers, bookshelves, and installed (in-ceiling / wall) speakers. Most people will notice and appreciate real speakers, and once they do they can be convinced to spend money on it.

So in conclusion, the average person does appreciate a good audio system, but they often don't notice or care if a system is really bad, so long as it works and they can either tune it out, or hear what they need to.

One other thing, the smiley-face EQ has a place. In many of the systems at my work, we use a smiley face EQ of sorts, since the speakers are in-ceiling distributed systems. Because of the high-frequency directivity of the speakers, and their limited bass output, boosting the treble, cutting back around 4-500hz, and boosting 80-120hz, usually makes it sound really good throughout the whole space, and most people seem to agree.

 

[Mart68]

Civilians tend to concentrate on the music not the sound quality, if you can listen to music through your cellphone speaker you could really listen through anything as long as it works.

Many really don't care but sometimes if they are exposed to good sound quality they do become interested,

Years ago now I was renting a house and the landlord sent a man round to plaster the hallway. I was listening to Van Halen and he came in the room and said 'This is Van Halen! I have all their records. I used to listen to them all the time when I was younger. This sounds great.'

He asked me about the system and what it cost (it was nothing special and all bought second hand as I had no money at the time. Maybe about £400 in today's money)

I told him what it cost me and he was amazed. He had only seen the price tags in dealer's windows so assumed 'A proper stereo' would cost him thousands, and had therefore dismissed the idea of ever owning one. Anyway I helped him put something together for a couple of hundred which was a level of spend he could justify to his wife.

On the other hand I have known serous enthusiasts with 30, 40 years in the game who are totally indiscriminating when it comes to loudspeakers. Outside of rational groups like on this forum it really is the wild west out there.

There's an assumption that everything well reviewed by 'respected reviewers' must at worst have strengths and weaknesses, and that the whole loudspeaker thing is really just 'personal taste.'

If the sound is bad the loudspeakers are therefore rarely considered to be the problem. Recording quality is blamed and if even Diana Krall sounds bad they will then attempt to fix the problem with cables, mains products or maybe, in desperation, change the amplifier.

 

[Fox _ Mulder]

There's something we tend to forget in our hobby. Personal taste. I don't see any problem if a person likes what they're listening to, even if their setup has failed the tests on this forum. What will matter to them is simply their personal taste, they don't listen to measurements....Taste is something personal and subjective.

Just as we don't "listen to cables", they don't listen to measurements.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I think this is an impossible to answer question really. Heck, I worked a night shift for a few years. All the local radio stations were country or talk. I had a Collins shortwave receiver. I was able to string up a long wire outside the building to pull that in. I listened a lot of hours on the built in paper cone speaker of that 40 year old Collins short wave. You could get music from countries all over the world. Was working in a control room over seeing some large industrial equipment. Having some music beat looking at the gauges for 8 hrs without it. Certainly not hifi by any means. Plus lots of musicians don't much care about audio quality. If they can make out the notes then that is enough.

 

[Cadguy]

Klipsch has been in business for 77 years making speakers that measure poorly. They know their audience, If its broke don't fix it.

 

[wwenze]

I'd say a preference score of between 1 to 2 is the lower limit before people start thinking something is wrong.

 

[Mart68]

One of my brothers is classically trained musician, plays several instruments to a very high standard and was the leader of an orchestra.

For years he used Wharfedale 'Delta 30' loudspeakers.



One of them stopped working and he asked me to take a look at it. I took the back off and all that was in there was a thin, folded sheet of wadding and a capacitor on the tweeter. Midbass unit was run full range.

The wire to the midbass was attached with one of those plug connectors and had come loose. Pushed it back in and it worked again.

I told him they were junk and to get something a lot better would not cost him much but he said he didn't hear any problem with them.

 

[bodhi]

I spoiled my parents with a pair of Yamaha NX500s. They have them in 60m2 living room 4+ meters listening distance.

My father constantly complains having too much money and nothing to spend it on, yet after they tried some LS60 they didn't notice much difference. I'm done with the dude.

 

[Axo1989]

I spoiled my parents with a pair of Yamaha NX500s. They have them in 60m2 living room 4+ meters listening distance.

My father constantly complains having too much money and nothing to spend it on, yet after they tried some LS60 they didn't notice much difference. I'm done with the dude.

If you can't enjoy shared pleasure in buying nice audio things, at least you will have more liquidity to inherit.

But I have no success with family/friends wrt audio stuff either. Suggested KEFs a few times, but it's all Sonos and soundbars.

Edit: Bose too, but I'll take alliteration over accuracy. There's an apt metaphor there, maybe.

 

[bodhi]

If you can't enjoy shared pleasure in buying nice audio things, at least you will have more liquidity to inherit.

But I have no success with family/friends wrt audio stuff either. Suggested KEFs a few times, but it's all Sonos and soundbars.

I earn enough that what my parents have make no difference. But I really can't understand why can't they hear, anything... Same with my brothers.

 

[Axo1989]

I earn enough that what my parents have make no difference. But I really can't understand why can't they hear, anything... Same with my brothers.

I was looking for a silver lining! But I share your disappointment/frustration. And I don't really get it either.

The closest I can come to understanding is some comments that my system sounds too distracting "I'd have to sit and listen if my speakers sounded like that" and that gets in the way of using music as background while doing other things. It also suggests those people can hear some difference, but don't necessarily want to experience music that way.

 

[MattHooper]

A lot of people don't mind listening to a song on their phone speaker.

I resemble that comment!

Musicians are famous for enjoying music on a cheap setup. They are listening to the performance & music, not the overall "sound". And, no home system sounds like a live performance in a large space so maybe it's because nothing measures-up.

That's one reason why I don't put that much stock in the justifications people often give for being an audiophile "I want to reproduce what the artist intended."
Musical performances / recordings translates very well through a wide variety of systems, even through iphone speakers in many cases. Musicians know this.
We audiophiles are mostly trying to justify our toys

But I have no success with family/friends wrt audio stuff either. Suggested KEFs a few times, but it's all Sonos and soundbars.

I was in to home theater early on and was the first among anyone I know to buy a plasma when they were stupid expensive. I had the "audio guy/home theater/TV guy/nerd" reputation among my friends and family, so naturally, for years, I was constantly asked advice whenever someone was buying a new TV.
It never mattered what I said. Not once. Every single time these people simply walked in to Best Buy or whatever and bought what was on sale, or whatever the salesman would sell them. I gave up and my answer became: "whatever's on sale."

 

[Axo1989]

I was in to home theater early on and was the first among anyone I know to buy a plasma when they were stupid expensive. I had the "audio guy/home theater/TV guy/nerd" reputation among my friends and family, so naturally, for years, I was constantly asked advice whenever someone was buying a new TV.
It never mattered what I said. Not once. Every single time these people simply walked in to Best Buy or whatever and bought what was on sale, or whatever the salesman would sell them. I gave up and my answer became: "whatever's on sale."

Haha, I can actually say "Sure, Sonos will be fine" now without giving anything away, or compulsively adding "but ..."

On the plus side, the usual price-sensitivity rarely leads anyone I know to black ash vinyl wrap.

 

[MattHooper]

Haha, I can actually say "Sure, Sonos will be fine" now without giving anything away, or compulsively adding "but ..."

On the plus side, the usual price-sensitivity rarely leads anyone I know to black ash vinyl wrap.

I actually had a first success not long ago. Architect pal of mine had a nothing sound system and wanted new speakers that would actually make music more pleasant to listen to. I tracked down a good local deal on KEFLS50s which he bought. He loves them, so does his wife. He mentions all the time how it is enhances their listening pleasure. Of course...he doesn't even have stands and has them only about a foot off the floor on bricks, his TV in between. So...not exactly hearing
them at their best. BUT...he says he spends a lot of time actually plopped down on the floor at the listening triangle, taking in the sound.

 

[ryanosaur]

I was looking for a silver lining! But I share your disappointment/frustration. And I don't really get it either.

The closest I can come to understanding is some comments that my system sounds too distracting "I'd have to sit and listen if my speakers sounded like that" and that gets in the way of using music as background while doing other things. It also suggests those people can hear some difference, but don't necessarily want to experience music that way.

This is why people choose Korbel over Roederer.
While they may well taste the difference they don’t choose to revel in it.

With audio, we revel in that difference… and to others it’s simply too fiddly or too much to ask them to care.

I’m not saying I approve, but I get it.

 

[Chrispy]

Two new terms today for me in this thread....normies and civilians. LOL. Not that audiophile is a particularly good term these days....

My general experience is that those who care about the performance of particular speakers isn't much of a thing with the vast majority of my friends. Portable stuff, earbuds, soundbars are usually the extent of their audio gear, too. Then again a lot of "audiophiles" can not get the speaker thing right and fuss around excessively with electronics, and/or wires and tweakery....

 

[Axo1989]

I actually had a first success not long ago. Architect pal of mine had a nothing sound system and wanted new speakers that would actually make music more pleasant to listen to. I tracked down a good local deal on KEFLS50s which he bought. He loves them, so does his wife. He mentions all the time how it is enhances their listening pleasure. Of course...he doesn't even have stands and has them only about a foot off the floor on bricks, his TV in between. So...not exactly hearing
them at their best. BUT...he says he spends a lot of time actually plopped down on the floor at the listening triangle, taking in the sound.

That counts as a win.

This is why people choose Korbel over Roederer.
While they may well taste the difference they don’t choose to revel in it.

With audio, we revel in that difference… and to others it’s simply too fiddly or too much to ask them to care.

I’m not saying I approve, but I get it.

Yes, exactly.

 

[O Akroatís]

So you can go on reasoning, for example, are some speakers worth 5x or even much more their price than other speakers?

 

[RayDunzl]

are some speakers worth 5x or even much more their price than other speakers?

Yes.

 

[amirm]

A speaker designer once told me speakers are 80% marketing, 20% technology. So clearly with proper marketing, any speaker sells.

Evaluating the performance of a speaker by itself is incredibly hard even for experts. This is why research into preference for speakers usually compares 4 or 5 speakers against each other. That way you can distinguish the really broken ones as those will stand out as odd ones. This again says that any speaker can sell since no one does comparisons like this.

The market is divided like this:

1. Speaker is designed to sound good to the designer, or in bigger company, to the marketing/product planning person. Needless to say, they could very well be wrong and produce junk.

2. Speaker is designed according to science with as flat of an on-axis response and smooth directivity. These have a chance to sound good in majority of situations. This is the camp we are in.

3. Lifestyle speakers which are designed first to sell to non-audiophile. Limitation of their performance keeps them from killing the audiophile market regardless of their brand power. But of course they sell in huge volumes if successful.