How audible is LFE phase shift?

[krabapple]

They are certainly the most practical option, but, as my reference to quadraphonicquad threads indicates, there are some listeners taking a more objective approach...actually measuring the phase shifts on ripped audio. Sighted comparisons are always prone to perceptual errors, even when we settle for them as 'good enough'.

The 6700H is from 2021, so, another recent model.

 

[Oddball]

They are certainly the most practical option, but, as my reference to quadraphonicquad threads indicates, there are some listeners taking a more objective approach...actually measuring the phase shifts on ripped audio. Sighted comparisons are always prone to perceptual errors, even when we settle for them as 'good enough'.

The 6700H is from 2021, so, another recent model.

I sometimes wonder why in extreme circumstances people are not inclined to use their ears? We can obviously do a lot to avoid that situation, but sometimes it just comes upon you.

I certainly would never even think of ripping any tracks to fix anything that might be wrong with them - especially if I can fix it by ear on D&M. Not sure how much you are into multichannel options, but having an ear or two will take you a long way. There is absolutely nothing in that space that will be "reference" by any means.

 

[krabapple]

I am very, very into multichannel. Which is why I am on quadraphonicquad...a forum devoted to it. There's a few of us here on ASR.

As other quadquad threads demonstrate, it's not only LFE that sometimes is printed more or less OOP. Sometimes it's mains vs center. In one case, the rear channels were completely OOP with the fronts. Or, sometimes, a channel is wrongly assigned. Your AVR won't easily fix stuff like that. You'll have to go into the file, and fix it yourself.

And who is to say what is 'extreme' to another person? For some audio obsessives, just 'knowing' something is 'wrong' is bothersome.

I suspect the small LFE phase shifts people may obsess about, aren't very audible. Other errors, should be.

But blind comparison is the best way to tell if you are 'really' hearing something.

 

[Oddball]

I am very, very into multichannel. Which is why I am on quadraphonicquad...a forum devoted to it. There's a few of us here on ASR.

As other quadquad threads demonstrate, it's not only LFE that sometimes is printed more or less OOP. Sometimes it's mains vs center. In one case, the rear channels were completely OOP with the fronts. Or, sometimes, a channel is wrongly assigned. Your AVR won't easily fix stuff like that. You'll have to go into the file, and fix it yourself.

And who is to say what is 'extreme' to another person? For some audio obsessives, just 'knowing' something is 'wrong' is bothersome.

I suspect the small LFE phase shifts people may obsess about, aren't very audible. Other errors, should be.

But blind comparison is the best way to tell if you are 'really' hearing something.

I was thinking less exotic, like 5.1 or derivatives up to Atmos.

Mixing is all over the place in those tracks, and honestly, even difficult to say what was and what was not artistic intention.

There are many, many bass management options that you can set up by the book, but then they might sound terrible with the real life content. Luckily we do still have ears to tell us what we are willing to keep up with, and can adjust things on the fly.

 

[krabapple]

I was thinking less exotic, like 5.1 or derivatives up to Atmos.

? I'm talking about 5.1 releases as a well as quad. The quadraphonicquad forum is devoted to all species of multichannel.

Mixing is all over the place in those tracks, and honestly, even difficult to say what was and what was not artistic intention.

There are many, many bass management options that you can set up by the book, but then they might sound terrible with the real life content. Luckily we do still have ears to tell us what we are willing to keep up with, and can adjust things on the fly.

But bass management is not really the source of the problem.

 

[Oddball]

But bass management is not really the source of the problem.

Bass mixing is the issue - not bass management. Different curves, different dynamics, different levels of mixing. So yes, then bass management becomes an issue due to the underlying signal properties.

 

[krabapple]

So, as I said, bass management isn't the source of the problem. And in the cases I've been talking about, bass isn't even necessarily the issue -- e.g. when a non-LFE surround channel is misassigned, or completely out of phase with the others, that's more fundamental problem than 'bass mixing'.