Horns - Necessary to complete the Audiophile Journey?

[paddycrow]

I always say, "If you're going to go nuts, you might as well go completely nuts!"

 

[thewas]

Klipsch Fortes go down to 40Hz easily.

View attachment 72192

In-room that is no big deal though due to room gain, nearby surfaces and the first room mode, even my small desktop KEF LS50 with official anechoic -3 dB point at 79 Hz get linearly below 40 Hz at my listening position thanks to clever placement.

 

[orangejello]

Did any sound at least okay?

I have been around horn fanatics over the years who obsess over the magnets, shape, etc... They built them and/or played around the likes of Klipschorns and Altec-Lansing. I never liked the result very much. I think that it has to do with what you listen for. Horns always seemed really good at dynamics and micro-dynamics, probably due to their efficiency. And I appreciate that. But the stuff I have been around always left me feeling that the reproduction of timbre was off and sound staging was terrible. Don't ask me why. That is just my experience with them. YMMV

 

[tuga]

I have been around horn fanatics over the years who obsess over the magnets, shape, etc... The built them and/or played around the likes of Klipschorns and Altec-Lansing. I never liked the result very much. I think that it has to do with what you listen for. Horns always seemed really good at dynamics and micro-dynamics, probably due to their efficiency. And I appreciate that. But the stuff I have been around always left me feeling that the reproduction of timbre was off and sound staging was terrible. Don't ask me why. That is just my experience with them. YMMV

If as most people you enjoy the effects of side-wall reflections then narrow dispersion speakers such as horns will likely be perceived as lacking envelopment and spaciousness.

 

[watchnerd]

Klipsch Fortes go down to 40Hz easily.

View attachment 72192

That's a very different, and better graph, than what Stereophile had:

 

[gvl]

I don't think Stereophile measured the original Fortes which is what I have, plus mine are in room measurements and I think Stereophiles are anechoic. Fwiw, this is the official graph from Klipsch.

 

[watchnerd]

I don't think Stereophile measured the original Fortes which is what I have, plus mine are in room measurements and I think Stereophiles are anechoic. Fwiw, this is the official graph from Klipsch.

View attachment 72224

The graph I posted was for the current Forte III.

 

[gvl]

In-room that is no big deal though due to room gain, nearby surfaces and the first room mode, even my small desktop KEF LS50 with official anechoic -3 dB point at 79 Hz get linearly below 40 Hz at my listening position thanks to clever placement.

Perhaps, they were rated 32Hz - 20kHz +/-3db however.

 

[watchnerd]

If as most people you enjoy the effects of side-wall reflections then narrow dispersion speakers such as horns will likely be perceived as lacking envelopment and spaciousness.

Corner placement should help that, right?

 

[watchnerd]

I always say, "If you're going to go nuts, you might as well go completely nuts!"

Photoshop?

 

[watchnerd]

I have been around horn fanatics over the years who obsess over the magnets, shape, etc... They built them and/or played around the likes of Klipschorns and Altec-Lansing. I never liked the result very much. I think that it has to do with what you listen for. Horns always seemed really good at dynamics and micro-dynamics, probably due to their efficiency. And I appreciate that. But the stuff I have been around always left me feeling that the reproduction of timbre was off and sound staging was terrible. Don't ask me why. That is just my experience with them. YMMV

This makes me want to try them, just to flip the coin to the other side.

Maybe I'll find out I find dynamics more compelling than soundstaging.

After all, I do have a lot of mono recordings.

 

[Bjorn]

Horns are terrific as long as they are very big, crossover is low, the directivity is constant, and active crossover is a definitive advantage. If the horn is rather small, I think several other speakers designs are better.

Below is a rendering of the 2-way horn I'm working on. A separated additional subwoofer (preferably horn loaded) is needed. The directivity is expectional uniform. But yeah, it's huge with 120 cm in width.

 

[gvl]

Check local sales for used older generation Klipsch Fortes or Heresy or Cornwallis, they come up for not much $$ every now and then. They may not be the best horn speakers out there but you will get a pretty good idea of horn speaker sound.

 

[gvl]

If as most people you enjoy the effects of side-wall reflections then narrow dispersion speakers such as horns will likely be perceived as lacking envelopment and spaciousness.

Does it make them sound truer to the original? Just curious as this is exactly my experience with horns. The sound stage they produce is somewhat flat. I tried to experiment with room placement but it didn't make whole lot of difference.

 

[Bjorn]

If as most people you enjoy the effects of side-wall reflections then narrow dispersion speakers such as horns will likely be perceived as lacking envelopment and spaciousness.

Not sure they do in the lon rung. Very few audiophiles have much experience with this and I see that those that actaully have practical experience, often lean towards speakers with limited dispersion. This is an area where today's psychoacoustics studies are lacking and not conclusive.

Besides, one can also achieve an enveloping and spacious sound field with speaker with narrower dispersion. Spaciosness is dependend on several factors related to acoustics. So researchers in this matter would be very difficult. What acoustics environment is to be used?

I have done a few surveys on forums about preferably directivity and very few know the answer to this. See here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...l-directivity-of-a-speaker.13718/#post-416294

 

[tuga]

Not sure they do in the lon rung. Very few audiophiles have much experience with this and I see that those that actaully have practical experience, often lean towards speakers with limited dispersion. This is an area where today's psychoacoustics studies are lacking and not conclusive.

Besides, one can also achieve an enveloping and spacious sound field with speaker with narrower dispersion. Spaciosness is dependend on several factors related to acoustics. So researchers in this matter would be very difficult. What acoustics environment is to be used?

I have done a few surveys on forums about preferably directivity and very few know the answer to this. See here:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...l-directivity-of-a-speaker.13718/#post-416294

I don't disagree but it seems to be a matter of taste.
My observation leads me to believe that not many audiophiles become experienced and demanding listeners with time, they tend to focus on soundstage, bass and loudness and don't evolve beyond that.

 

[Bjorn]

Taste or music preference is probably part of it. But I also think "taste" here is very related to the room and acoustics. Something few understand much about. And by applying acoustic treatment (for those who can do that), different psycoacoustics clues and design goals can be achieved which sort of renders the wide vs. narrow speaker dispersion discussion.

 

[tuga]

Corner placement should help that, right?

A Klipschorn fires at 45° with the front and side walls. It depends on the beamwidth of the midrange horn but unless it's over 90° then I would say no.

 

[tuga]

Check local sales for used older generation Klipsch Fortes or Heresy or Cornwallis, they come up for not much $$ every now and then. They may not be the best horn speakers out there but you will get a pretty good idea of horn speaker sound.

I would just consider the Klipschorn and only if run active in order to time-align the drivers with some massaging of the frequency response, the step response is attrocious, probably the worst to date on Sphile:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/klipsch-klipschorn-ak6-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[tuga]

Taste or music preference is probably part of it. But I also think "taste" here is very related to the room and acoustics. Something few understand much about. And by applying acoustic treatment (for those who can do that), different psycoacoustics clues and design goals can be achieved which sort of renders the wide vs. narrow speaker dispersion discussion.

I thought so too regarding "taste" but a more careful observation has produced the opposite results. "Taste" comes from the gut not understanding and if people are into immersiveness, envelopment and soundstage (the latest audiophile craze) then objective arguments won't make them change their opinion. Well perhaps a few people here at ASR may respond well to the right arguments.