"Home Theater" Speakers

[echopraxia]

Ergotron goes even further to say your eyes should be near the top of the screen:

https://www.ergotron.com/en-us/ergonomics/ergonomic-equation

As does ViewSonic:

"Getting into the numbers of it all, your screen should be placed anywhere between eye level and thirty-degrees below your line of sight. This range is determined based on the fact that our eyes naturally trend straight ahead and downward when at rest."

"When gazing at a computer monitor, your eyes should be at rest when viewing a browser’s address bar."

https://www.viewsonic.com/library/business/best-computer-screen-positioning/

View attachment 84366

Now, I admit I do not put my screen that low because I can't. It's as low as it can go already. I do sit back a bit against my headrest in a tall back chair so the angles are a bit different.

Wow, now that I think about it, that totally makes sense. Here is a simple experiment anyone can do: Face your head perfectly straight forward. Now look down as low as you can with your eyes, without rotating your head. Now try to look up as high as you were able to look downward. It seems to be not only impossible, but much less comfortable.

 

[richard12511]

It sounds like your chair could be suspect. Chairs play an enormous role in the geometry they put our bodies in.

Nah, it's not the chair. I have three really good chairs and it happens on every chair/couch I've ever sat on. I put my monitors (which already have high stands) on top of 2 1,000 page books each to raise them up. Before I started doing that, I was having to take pain meds and icy hot every day just to be able to work effectively. Raising the monitors up so that my eyes are at the bottom of the screen forces me to keep my head straight, which queues me to bring my shoulders back and chest up, fixing my kyphotic neck position. Doing this was actually something my GP recommended that he does(as he has the same problem).

Usually it's not a problem for HT, as I'm only sitting there for a few hours at a time. Work is the bigger problem, where I'm sitting and coding for 9 hours a day. That's where it really helps to have good spine position.

 

[richard12511]

Wow, now that I think about it, that totally makes sense. Here is a simple experiment anyone can do: Face your head perfectly straight forward. Now look down as low as you can with your eyes, without rotating your head. Now try to look up as high as you were able to look downward. It seems to be not only impossible, but much less comfortable.

Ewww, I can feel the pain in my upper back just from looking at that picture with the guy in the maroon. His setup is even worse than mine was before I lifted the monitors up a foot

 

[DLxP]

^ do you have very narrow depth requirements? If not, I'd recommend something more substantial unless you are going to run high crossovers to subs that are placed right up with the speakers.

Lower crossovers (no higher than 80 Hz) facilitate the ability to put subs around the room without localization. I've benefited from that. Just my 0.02

Edit: I guess -10 dB at 40 Hz should make an 80 Hz crossover work. The speaker probably benefits from boundary reinforcement.

Reasonably narrow, yes. They wouldnt be behind an AT screen, but they can't come out more than approx 50cm from the back wall. I'd absolutely be crossing them over with a sub, around 80-90Hz. My Arendal Sub 3 initially then perhaps another one or two later.

I've essentially narrowed my options down to Revel F206 & C205/8 if I want something pretty and with proven neutrality; or the 3677s if I want to save money and get speakers that (I'm guessing) will be markedly more dynamic and therefore a bit more cinematic.

 

[flyzipper]

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!", Michael Corleone

(source - www.sanus.com HeightFinder)

 

[echopraxia]

Personally I do prefer the TV to be slightly elevated (though not as high as some have mentioned here), just because it permits a more comfortable reclining posture. But I think it’s all relative to what posture you actually prefer.

 

[jhaider]

Ergotron goes even further to say your eyes should be near the top of the screen:

You’re conflating “nearfield” attentive work with “far field” recreation.

 

[richard12511]

Personally I do prefer the TV to be slightly elevated (though not as high as some have mentioned here), just because it permits a more comfortable reclining posture. But I think it’s all relative to what posture you actually prefer.

Yeah I definitely think it depends on the person. Of all the people I work with, I know of only one other lady that has the same upper back issues I have, and raising her monitors fixed her problems as well. Everyone else seems to be fine with eye height monitors.

I think I'm just extra sensitive to it, and I go to great lengths to minimize the amount of time I spend looking at objects below eye height. I also wear one of these while working.

 

[jhaider]

Wow, now that I think about it, that totally makes sense. Here is a simple experiment anyone can do: Face your head perfectly straight forward...

Are we to assume a broken neck and military posture in your experiment?

 

[Chromatischism]

You’re conflating “nearfield” attentive work with “far field” recreation.

Not conflating. Replying to another post regarding computer use.

 

[jhaider]

Not conflating. Replying to another post regarding computer use.

Ok. Either way the answer is, if multichannel audio is important, adapt the screen location to fit around good loudspeaker placement practice.

If multichannel audio is not important...ask someone else.

 

[flyzipper]

Ok. Either way the answer is, if multichannel audio is important, adapt the screen location to fit around good loudspeaker placement practice.

If multichannel audio is not important...ask someone else.

If multichannel audio is important, and video is also important... use an acoustically transparent screen so your screen channel speakers are properly aligned... or feel free to omit the centre channel speaker that's shoved under your TV.

Everyone do what you want... none of my posts should be misconstrued as trying to convince you that your preferences are wrong.

Most people have their TV above their fireplace and a Sonos on the mantle so they can watch from the kitchen while making dinner.

They're not wrong about their preference, but they shouldn't confuse their preference with best practice.

 

[Sancus]

There's always Sony's Acoustic Surface stuff. Then your TV can also be your center speaker! I imagine the timbre matching with most speakers would be bad though.

I actually wish I could use a projector but their inability to do any HDR short of spending >$100K is a dealbreaker for me.

 

[flyzipper]

I actually wish I could use a projector but their inability to do any HDR short of spending >$100K is a dealbreaker for me.

Yeah, it's the horrendous input lag on projectors that keeps me away for now.

 

[jhaider]

If multichannel audio is important, and video is also important... use an acoustically transparent screen so your screen channel speakers are properly aligned... or feel free to omit the centre channel speaker that's shoved under your TV.

Omitting the center channel is IMO the absolute dumbest way to go. We’re still suffering that stereo was dumbed down from three channels! Pretty much all recordings sound better when content is appropriately steered to a hard center channel.

There’s also an unproven assumption in the marketing description got used to describe a class of screens. I have my doubts, though in truth screens are likely no worse than grilles, and even when their effect is visible in a graph I’ve yet to find one truly sonically offensive.

Worst of all, projectors have loud fans, but unlike a pro amp you can’t just put it in the basement. Also, they look terrible when it’s not pitch black in the room, as opposed to an OLED that looks great when light is streaming through the windows on a cloudless day at noon. Bottom line is projectors are fine for people who have a dedicated space, or people who so want a big screen that they’re willing to buy a motorized screen and spend more on soundproofing the projector than a good OLED costs.

 

[echopraxia]

Omitting the center channel is IMO the absolute dumbest way to go. We’re still suffering that stereo was dumbed down from three channels! Pretty much all recordings sound better when content is appropriately steered to a hard center channel.

There’s also an unproven assumption in the marketing description got used to describe a class of screens. I have my doubts, though in truth screens are likely no worse than grilles, and even when their effect is visible in a graph I’ve yet to find one truly sonically offensive.

Worst of all, projectors have loud fans, but unlike a pro amp you can’t just put it in the basement. Also, they look terrible when it’s not pitch black in the room, as opposed to an OLED that looks great when light is streaming through the windows on a cloudless day at noon. Bottom line is projectors are fine for people who have a dedicated space, or people who so want a big screen that they’re willing to buy a motorized screen and spend more on soundproofing the projector than a good OLED costs.

I think it’s a matter of opinion whether a below-the-TV center channel adds more than it detracts. I think most of us will agree that two really great LR towers are definitely better than three terrible front channels (imagine e.g. Definitive Tech Mythos Gem’s — among the absolute worst “home theater” speakers I’ve ever heard). So to extend that logic, it’s not at all a stretch to argue that the vertical imaging shift (from an under-TV center channel) can cause more problems that it solves. There is no need to call anyone dumb for omitting the center channel; it’s a perfectly reasonable argument to consider this trade off, and there’s nothing dumb about it.

I’m definitely also a fan of OLED, so I don’t really know where I lie on this spectrum. When my initial two JBL SRX835P’s arrive, it may be an interesting experiment to try a low profile center channel of some kind with the power to keep up, and see how that goes. One thing I’m pretty confident in from what I’ve heard when testing the JBLs though, is that compromising to use a weak (or significantly less capable) center channel is likely to sound worse vs just running stereo on two really good LR mains. So I do ultimately plan to buy a third SEX835P center channel, and use a projector screen for the ultimate setup... eventually.

But from what I’ve heard so far when renting the SRX835P’s, just two of them blow away most three channel setups by far, so I know I’ll be happy for quite some time.

 

[flyzipper]

Pretty much all recordings sound better when content is appropriately steered to a hard center channel.

... when the centre channel is properly placed.

(there, finished your thought... and agree 100%)

 

[Kvalsvoll]

Place the center above the screen, problem solved. Even if the speaker ends up quite close to the ceiling, it will be much better than a low mounted one with a table right in front.

And a GOOD center does not sound like the sound comes from the speaker, it sounds like it comes from the screen - the speaker "disappears".

 

[echopraxia]

... when the centre channel is be properly placed.

(there, finished your thought... and agree 100%)

It’s also possible that different people have different sensitivity to spatial cues from audio, I suspect. I also have historically found it a little weird when voices come from below the TV, when the faces speaking are often nearer to the top of the TV. However this also makes me wonder if a top-mounted center channel wouldn’t be a better compromise. But yes, it’s still a compromise. And one where it’s quite reasonable to say a phantom center may be better, especially if you hear the shifted height of center voices and find it odd.

 

[echopraxia]

Place the center above the screen, problem solved. Even if the speaker ends up quite close to the ceiling, it will be much better than a low mounted one with a table right in front.

And a GOOD center does not sound like the sound comes from the speaker, it sounds like it comes from the screen - the speaker "disappears".

Looks like we had similar idea at similar time

But regarding a good center channel sounding like voices are coming from the TV... how is that possible? Either speakers are precisely localize-able or not. If they are, then the lower vertical position will be audible. And if the speakers are not precisely localizable, then what’s the point of a real center channel at all?

I think we do benefit from the fact that human hearing is much more finely tuned to locate sounds in the horizontal plane than the vertical, but height differences are still audible to some degree.