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Home theater receiver on a budget, and room correction implementations (Dirac Live, YPAO RSC, Audyssey XT32)

Pygmy

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I'm looking for a receiver in the 1000-2000 euro range, and I'd love to have proper room correction.
I've read great things about Dirac Live, supposedly being better than the "we'll do it ourselves" room correction like Audyssey and YPAO RSC.

So there's the Nad T758 V3I with Dirac - and it got completely destroyed in the measurements on this site, while user reviews are mostly raving.
There's the Yamaha's (RX A2A / A4A) with YPAO RSC multipoint - as I gather people say the Yamaha's are very good, but YPAO Rsc isn't as good as Dirac Live...


So - do I go for the Nad T758 V3I that was shamed on this site but does have Dirac Live?
Or do I go for one of the Yamaha's with YPAO Rsc?

Please help because I'm unsure how to proceed..
 

HarmonicTHD

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I'm looking for a receiver in the 1000-2000 euro range, and I'd love to have proper room correction.
I've read great things about Dirac Live, supposedly being better than the "we'll do it ourselves" room correction like Audyssey and YPAO RSC.

So there's the Nad T758 V3I with Dirac - and it got completely destroyed in the measurements on this site, while user reviews are mostly raving.
There's the Yamaha's (RX A2A / A4A) with YPAO RSC multipoint - as I gather people say the Yamaha's are very good, but YPAO Rsc isn't as good as Dirac Live...


So - do I go for the Nad T758 V3I that was shamed on this site but does have Dirac Live?
Or do I go for one of the Yamaha's with YPAO Rsc?

Please help because I'm unsure how to proceed..
The new Denon X Series will apparently offer both Audyssey and Dirac. So you can try for yourself what suits better to your setup.

IMHO. There seems plenty of evidence going both ways for some who actually have published measurements Dirac seems to work better, for others Audyssey. And of course there are opinions abound. ;-)
 
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Pygmy

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So what's the price point on that new Denon X series..?
Keep in mind I'm looking for the best room correction under 2000 euros ;-)
One thing that bothers me is that most companies seem to focus on more channels and shizzle.
I don't need more channels, and neither does anyone I know.
I honestly don't know people with more than 5.1 speakers.
Most people I know have between 3.1 and 5.1, a lot of them just 3.0 to 5.0 - no subwoofer.

I'd love to have a proper Surround Amplifier with 5.1, Dirac Live and NO FM / DAB radio.
Just give me a unit that does the basics *well*.
 
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HarmonicTHD

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So what's the price point on that new Denon X series..?
There is a separate thread on it so best check there. I think I remember around 1600, but I am quoting from memory so please cross check.

Edit. Found it.
 
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Pygmy

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There is a separate thread on it so best check there. I think I remember around 1600, but I am quoting from memory so please cross check.

Edit. Found it.
That's 26 pages, I didn't see anything on page 1 neither on page 26..
If you can be more specific on where to find the price point on new Denons I'd very much appreciate it!
 

HarmonicTHD

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That's 26 pages, I didn't see anything on page 1 neither on page 26..
If you can be more specific on where to find the price point on new Denons I'd very much appreciate it!
Start from the back. I also would have to search for it.
 
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Pygmy

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Start from the back. I also would have to search for it.
I was doing just that.. what I could find was the mention of the Denon AVR-X3800H ($1,699) being the cheapest to include Dirac Live..
Which - sadly - probably means it'll be over 2000 euros here in europe.

There currently are a lot of reasons I'm happy to not live in the US, but my audio hobby is not one of them :-/
 

Peluvius

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I'm looking for a receiver in the 1000-2000 euro range, and I'd love to have proper room correction.
I've read great things about Dirac Live, supposedly being better than the "we'll do it ourselves" room correction like Audyssey and YPAO RSC.

So there's the Nad T758 V3I with Dirac - and it got completely destroyed in the measurements on this site, while user reviews are mostly raving.
There's the Yamaha's (RX A2A / A4A) with YPAO RSC multipoint - as I gather people say the Yamaha's are very good, but YPAO Rsc isn't as good as Dirac Live...


So - do I go for the Nad T758 V3I that was shamed on this site but does have Dirac Live?
Or do I go for one of the Yamaha's with YPAO Rsc?

Please help because I'm unsure how to proceed..

I would go for good room correction over a difference in electronics as a general approach. Unless the AVR is actually broken in terms of design it is really hard to hear the difference in electronics at similar price points, that has always been my experience.

My personal experience with YPAO, Audyssey and Dirac would push me towards Dirac but there are a number of other views and experiences on this forum that see Audyssey as a viable option (very few seem too happy with YPAO).

So maybe the NAD option would be where I would go over the Yammy to answer your original question.
 
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Pygmy

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I would go for good room correction over a difference in electronics as a general approach. Unless the ACR is actually broken in terms of design it is really hard to hear the difference in electronics at similar price points, that has always been my experience.

My personal experience with YPAO, Audyssey and Dirac would push me towards Dirac but there are a number of other views and experiences on this forum that see Audyssey as a viable option (very few seem too happy with YPAO).

So maybe the NAD option would be where I would go over the Yammy to answer your original question.
Thanks for sharing - this is my current train of thought as well.
What I read is most people are very happy with the Yamaha and YPAO (RSC) except maybe for the subwoofer part (which is irrelevant because I don't have a subwoofer), but Dirac still seems to be more advanced in the general "fixing sound".
As far as I read about Audyssey XT32 it seems to be okay as well but needs a *lot* of work to end up to a result that might just be as good as Dirac Live...
 

FrantzM

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Hi

Welcome. Getting the best from any system requires lot of work. We are not a the stage of pressing a button and ...
I am for now in the Audyssey and Denon camp. To me Dynamic EQ is a requirement. And very few systems have the equivalent.
As for Room correction and system set-up, I would rate Yamaha and Pioneer efforts as lacking , as in very much lacking.
Audyssey requires work, of that you can be sure but it performs. You need the smartphone App, mandatory. at $20... not much of a budget issue. Much better results shall be obtained with their PC application, Audyssey MultiEQ (IIRC) which cost $200.oo but is attached to one AVR, if you upgrade it doesn't work ... To me a nonstarter.
It is not clear cut which is better: Audyssey or Dirac.
One more thing about Dirac, if you use subwoofers, you may need Dirac Live Bass Control, which is not a part of the basic Dirac suite... I don't know if it will be included in the Denon AVR offering, if Denon indeed will offer Dirac...


Peace.
 

HarmonicTHD

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I was doing just that.. what I could find was the mention of the Denon AVR-X3800H ($1,699) being the cheapest to include Dirac Live..
Which - sadly - probably means it'll be over 2000 euros here in europe.

There currently are a lot of reasons I'm happy to not live in the US, but my audio hobby is not one of them :-/
Mmhh. Let’s see when we actually see EUR prices in the stores. But could be with the current weakness of the Euro. You might be lucky to pick up the outgoing model x3700 for less but yes without Dirac.
 
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Pygmy

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Hi

Welcome. Getting the best from any system requires lot of work. We are not a the stage of pressing a button and ...
I am for now in the Audyssey and Denon camp. To me Dynamic EQ is a requirement. And very few systems have the equivalent.
As for Room correction and system set-up, I would rate Yamaha and Pioneer efforts as lacking , as in very much lacking.
Audyssey requires work, of that you can be sure but it performs. You need the smartphone App, mandatory. at $20... not much of a budget issue. Much better results shall be obtained with their PC application, Audyssey MultiEQ (IIRC) which cost $200.oo but is attached to one AVR, if you upgrade it doesn't work ... To me a nonstarter.
It is not clear cut which is better: Audyssey or Dirac.
One more thing about Dirac, if you use subwoofers, you may need Dirac Live Bass Control, which is not a part of the basic Dirac suite... I don't know if it will be included in the Denon AVR offering, if Denon indeed will offer Dirac...


Peace.
Hi Frantz.
I get that it takes a lot of work to make a system sound good.
I have two rooms to think about - the living room which is mostly used for movies (videoprojector, drop down screen, 5 speakers no subwoofer) and the live-in-kitchen where most of life happens.

For the kitchen I've built two floorstander speakers (Heissmann Samuel HQ) using slate stone and leather, and for amplification I've built a Class D amplifier based on the TPA3116 chip.. I then used a Umik1 microphone with REW to do room measurements, and a Raspberry Pi with a Hifiberry DAC+ dsp to do PEQ and correct the sound according to the room measurements.
I've built two smaller "Needle Deluxe" speakers for the living room (full range).

setup.jpeg


I'm pretty happy with the results of the room-correction, but the good results also made me think there's more to gain using FIR, which Dirac and YPAO and Audyssey Xt32 do.

I don't care much about having to spend 20 bucks or so for unlocking one thing or another - I just want a decent 5.1 receiver that gives me the best room correction within a budget of 1000-2000 euros... :)
 

DrStranger

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I'm looking for a receiver in the 1000-2000 euro range, and I'd love to have proper room correction.
I've read great things about Dirac Live, supposedly being better than the "we'll do it ourselves" room correction like Audyssey and YPAO RSC.

So there's the Nad T758 V3I with Dirac - and it got completely destroyed in the measurements on this site, while user reviews are mostly raving.
There's the Yamaha's (RX A2A / A4A) with YPAO RSC multipoint - as I gather people say the Yamaha's are very good, but YPAO Rsc isn't as good as Dirac Live...


So - do I go for the Nad T758 V3I that was shamed on this site but does have Dirac Live?
Or do I go for one of the Yamaha's with YPAO Rsc?

Please help because I'm unsure how to proceed..
There is the Pioneer VSX-LX305 / 505 and the Onkyo TX-RZ50.
 

hmt

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I'm looking for a receiver in the 1000-2000 euro range, and I'd love to have proper room correction.
I've read great things about Dirac Live, supposedly being better than the "we'll do it ourselves" room correction like Audyssey and YPAO RSC.

So there's the Nad T758 V3I with Dirac - and it got completely destroyed in the measurements on this site, while user reviews are mostly raving.
There's the Yamaha's (RX A2A / A4A) with YPAO RSC multipoint - as I gather people say the Yamaha's are very good, but YPAO Rsc isn't as good as Dirac Live...


So - do I go for the Nad T758 V3I that was shamed on this site but does have Dirac Live?
Or do I go for one of the Yamaha's with YPAO Rsc?

Please help because I'm unsure how to proceed..
Imo just wait for the Denon X3800.
 

usersky

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I went for NAD knowing it's measurements and I am happy with the decision.
 

FrantzM

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Imo just wait for the Denon X3800.
According to past here, on ASR, it is available at $1700.oo. Audyssey, 4 (!) subwoofers output, Dirac in a future firmware. My next AVR, :cool:… maybe:p
 

JR449

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I was doing just that.. what I could find was the mention of the Denon AVR-X3800H ($1,699) being the cheapest to include Dirac Live..
Which - sadly - probably means it'll be over 2000 euros here in europe.

There currently are a lot of reasons I'm happy to not live in the US, but my audio hobby is not one of them :-/

1700€ - 1800€ pre-order price in few EU countries so X3800H should be within your budget! :) DE sources saying they will announce the Dirac Live pricing 2023. Milking big sales before christmas and then shocking people next year with the DL price? Well we are going to hear more next week at Cedia audio show as Gene @ Audioholics is going to interview Sound United.

Tomorrow Marantz announces new models including the X3800H variant called Cinema 50 for 2500$.
 

dlaloum

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Chech whether Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer are available yet in europe.

If they are then they will be the best possible value for Dirac Live.

I have the Integra DRX 3.4 and have been very happy with it. (although I use external amps for the fronts... low impedance speakers requiring high current are a bit beyond most AVR's!)
 
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Pygmy

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A'aight so I'm back and I bought some stuff :)
For the living room (home theater 5.0 setup) I bought the NAD T758 V3i - yes, the one that measured terribly on this site - and for the kitchen (2.0 setup, since today 2.1 setup) I bought a MiniDSP SHD Power.

I spent some time measuring both rooms and playing with Dirac filters and now I'm happy with the sound in both rooms.
All I can say about the NAD is - I think that what it offers in Dirac definitely makes up for whatever I'm *supposed* to be losing by the AudioScienceReview measurements.
I'm just using it at normal volumes - not throwing parties or whatever - and it sounds fine to me (as in - I don't hear any difference compared to my Sony DN1050, Onkyo TX-SR608, or Pioneer 2013 receiver), but the Dirac room correction (when used correctly, this takes some informed experimenting) makes everything sound so much better that I think this is much more important than an expensive amplifier or more expensive speakers.

Both in my (5x6m) kitchen and my (6x6) living room Dirac works wonders on the clarity of the sound.
But as mentioned, it takes a few nights of experimentation to find out your personal sweet spot - some people use Dirac on the entire frequency range, some say to only use it below 200Hz...
My personal sweet spot in the kitchen was "everything below 370Hz" - above that my speakers' frequency response followed the Dirac curve pretty okayish (Mostly within 4dB) so I tried not to touch anything that seemed "okay".

So to make a short story way too long - No Dirac is not a magic wand, but yes it actually is, somewhat... if you take the time to take proper measurements, and play around with the filter and try to understand what's happening in your room and with your speakers.. :)

Edit:
Oh and just for fun I bought a 2nd hand subwoofer (a 15 year old "Hepta Bariton" that supposedly goes down to 20Hz) for peanuts just to add a tiny bit of sub-bass in the kitchen. I'm just done measuring and experimenting and basically in the end I kept the Dirac settings for my speakers exactly the same as without subwoofer, and just let the sub add a *tiny* bit of bass - you don't notice it when it's on, but when I turn it off you notice something went away :)

Edit 2:
It helped me a lot that before this I've played around with room correction using REW, a Umik1 and a RaspberryPi with Hifiberry DSP+, as well as buying and reading (or well, reading most of) Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms".
Definitely recommended reading material.
 
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