Home Brew Speaker Project

[March Audio]

Been pondering over a home brew speaker project for a while. I have never built one before, so its very much formative at the moment and probably more of a bit of fun to see what can be achieved.

Thinking along the lines of a smallish 2 way active DSP standmounts. With the state and low cost of DSP now and availability of good class D amps, passive speakers are making less sense to me. Also the intention is to use with a sub so it doesnt have to go down too low.

Anyway I have been browsing the catalogues of the usual driver manufacturers. Actually been somewhat disappointed with what I have seen in terms of specs from the high rep Scandinavians. In my travels I came across the two following drivers. Anyone had any experience of or comments on them?

Mundorf AMT tweeter - BTW any comments on the subjective effect of limited vertical dispersion?

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c.../mundorf-amt23cm1.1-c-air-motion-tweeter-amt/

Morel 5" Woofer

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/morel-caw538-5-woofer/

 

[h.g.]

Anyway I have been browsing the catalogues of the usual driver manufacturers. Actually been somewhat disappointed with what I have seen in terms of specs from the high rep Scandinavians.

You are confident you can extract what is important and what is less important from the presented specifications? (I think I can guess what might have disappointed you about SEAS specs.)

In my travels I came across the two following drivers. Anyone had any experience of or comments on them?

Mundorf AMT tweeter - BTW any comments on the subjective effect of limited vertical dispersion?

It is hard to see past the price of that tweeter for a first DIY project.

Morel 5" Woofer

That is an expensive driver but not excessively so like the tweeter. What did you see in the specs that attracted you to it?

If you think you might want a 5" poly driver this higher value for money one at under half the price may be a wiser choice for a first project. There is a fair chance it has lower distortion motor than the Morel if that is relevant to you. Of course I may be weighting parameters like value for money inappropriately for your project.

 

[Purité Audio]

This sounds interesting, so I want to make a traditional ish three way loudspeaker , I have no preconceptions where do I start?
Dynamic drivers, ribbons, heil motion tweeter ,plasma , compression drivers?
Keith.

 

[h.g.]

This sounds interesting, so I want to make a traditional ish three way loudspeaker , I have no preconceptions where do I start?
Dynamic drivers, ribbons, heil motion tweeter ,plasma , compression drivers?
Keith.

To start narrowing things down you would need to expand the description of what the speaker is to do. High SPL, ultrasonics, attractive to audiophiles, attractive to other market sectors, small, big, neutral sound, attractive sound, price, etc...

In this case I assumed as a first DIY project one or two things are inevitably going to end up as not quite right and so expensive drivers do not look particularly wise. This might be wrong.

Perhaps the most common high fidelity home audio 3 way speaker these days is a 1" tweeter, 5" midrange and 2 x 8" woofers in a narrow tower cabinet. It might serve as a reasonable starting point. Ported or sealed? waveguide on tweeter? waveguide on midrange (would make the cabinet too wide and so perhaps a 12" woofer in a monitor cabinet), etc...

 

[March Audio]

You are confident you can extract what is important and what is less important from the presented specifications? (I think I can guess what might have disappointed you about SEAS specs.)


It is hard to see past the price of that tweeter for a first DIY project.


That is an expensive driver but not excessively so like the tweeter. What did you see in the specs that attracted you to it?

If you think you might want a 5" poly driver this higher value for money one at under half the price may be a wiser choice for a first project. There is a fair chance it has lower distortion motor than the Morel if that is relevant to you. Of course I may be weighting parameters like value for money inappropriately for your project.

mmmm.......I think you are making a LOT of assumptions........

 

[March Audio]

HG,

Would you say this is a good tweeter?

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...-r2904/7000-09-tweeter-black-face-black-plug/

One of the things I was looking for was good off axis response

 

[AJ Soundfield]

Thinking along the lines of a smallish 2 way active DSP standmounts.

Have a look here if you haven't already

Mundorf AMT tweeter - BTW any comments on the subjective effect of limited vertical dispersion?
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c.../mundorf-amt23cm1.1-c-air-motion-tweeter-amt/

It's not too bad, just a bit of softening of the very top octave >10k

Morel 5" Woofer
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/morel-caw538-5-woofer/

As Andy19191 points out, there may be more modern, better choices. The Morels xmax is very limited, like your Sd cone area.
The SB certainly looks to have the better motor.

cheers,

AJ

 

[AJ Soundfield]

This sounds interesting, so I want to make a traditional ish three way loudspeaker , I have no preconceptions where do I start?
Dynamic drivers, ribbons, heil motion tweeter ,plasma , compression drivers?
Keith.

Don't do it Keith, it'll become an obsession.

 

[Purité Audio]

AJ Hi, I am a tiny bit obsessive compulsive but I like to think I know my limitations!
This is really what I was asking you before m where on earth do you start?
Ralph ( Cessaro) literally owned everything first, stats, TL,BBC dynamic you name it realised he liked horns best and literally made many iterations, buying in the process many types of dynamis and compression drivers.
From what I have read, because of point source, a three/four way is considered sound, with small tweeter, larger mid ,larger still upper bass, largest bass driver.
But what else, you can look at the Fr plots of various drivers,choose the portion that you wish to use, think about where and how they are going to cross, what else.
What is linearisation, is it the different efficincies of the various drivers?
Keith.

 

[h.g.]

HG,

Would you say this is a good tweeter?

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...-r2904/7000-09-tweeter-black-face-black-plug/

One of the things I was looking for was good off axis response

It is a very expensive tweeter which means there are limited circumstances under which it is likely to be classified as "good" overall.

If you wish to control the off-axis response (to what end?) then a waveguide would seem the obvious way to go. The design AJ linked to would seem to have a lot going for it although you might want to consider sealed if you will always use a subwoofer.

 

[March Audio]

It is a very expensive tweeter which means there are limited circumstances under which it is likely to be classified as "good" overall.

If you wish to control the off-axis response (to what end?) then a waveguide would seem the obvious way to go. The design AJ linked to would seem to have a lot going for it although you might want to consider sealed if you will always use a subwoofer.

Price isnt really the issue, I am looking at more of a technical basis and that expensive Scandanavian driver doesnt have the smoothest on or of axis response

This article succinctly explains my reasoning for desiring a smooth on/off axis response (saves me typing)

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/20...nse-psychoacoustic-and-subjective-importance/


What drivers/waveguide do you have in mind?

 

[AJ Soundfield]

AJ Hi, I am a tiny bit obsessive compulsive but I like to think I know my limitations!

Start building speakers and you may find differently.

This is really what I was asking you before m where on earth do you start?

Well, I started in Physics class 35 years ago. I sometimes wonder where many "audiophile" designers do, given that there are some very basics to wave propagation that are seemingly unknown.
All kidding aside, size/weight, output capability and of course cost/complexity.

Ralph ( Cessaro) literally owned everything first, stats, TL,BBC dynamic you name it realised he liked horns best and literally made many iterations, buying in the process many types of dynamis and compression drivers.

Yes, me too. I wanted the 3D window of stats, the dynamics and power of horns, the bass pitch and definition of dipoles, the slam of boxes, disappearing act of minimonitors and so on. Where could I find that? Not to mention manufacturers who have even the slightest clue about the field psychoacoustics, much less the last 50yrs available at their fingertips! Hence, I roll my own. High efficiency planar horn variable gradient with variable, independent indirect radiation capability. Good luck find that in audiophile circles.

From what I have read, because of point source, a three/four way is considered sound, with small tweeter, larger mid ,larger still upper bass, largest bass driver.

The number of bandwidths is a means to an end. There are good one ways and terrible 5 ways. Yes, 3 way is about minimum for higher dynamic, full bandwidth capability. I find 4 way to be a reasonable compromise as you say, due to piston diameter and bandwidth limitations. 1812s are 5 way.

But what else, you can look at the Fr plots of various drivers,choose the portion that you wish to use, think about where and how they are going to cross, what else.

Yes something like that, in conjunction with the impedance and T/S parameters, always in sum total. After 30+ yrs you best learn the relations, like low inductive rise in the impedance, Qms (damping) and the finer details of both FR and impedance.

What is linearisation, is it the different efficincies of the various drivers?

I would have to see the context of the term use.

cheers

AJ

 

[amirswallowsmen]

Hi, I was recently searching the web for Arab men who like little boys and I found some guy named Amir prominently featured in Google's search results. Is this where I go to connect with him? Man, what a stupid URL. Anyone who knows anything about marketing and publicity would know that Audio Science Review is an overly complicated web address. Why not do something cool and use an abbreviation like ASR? The current name sounds like something only a washed up hack who used to work on ****** A/V software for Microsoft could think of. This site sucks already and I still haven't found this alleged Amir guy. Is he in the broom closet with a bunch of children? Ugh how frustrating!

 

[h.g.]

What drivers/waveguide do you have in mind?

That would depend on the details of what you want the waveguide to do. Can you design and manufacture a waveguide? If so something like this (measurements on RHS) is likely to be the way to go to control the directivity in a small 2 way. If you cannot then your options for controlling directivity are more limited. An off the shelf tweeter with a waveguide like the SEAS one in AJ's link would seem to provide a fair amount of what you seem to be looking for in a normal sized tweeter package.

 

[AJ Soundfield]

Hi, I was recently searching the web for Arab men who like little boys and I found some guy named Amir prominently featured in Google's search results. Is this where I go to connect with him? Man, what a stupid URL. Anyone who knows anything about marketing and publicity would know that Audio Science Review is an overly complicated web address. Why not do something cool and use an abbreviation like ASR? The current name sounds like something only a washed up hack who used to work on ****** A/V software for Microsoft could think of. This site sucks already and I still haven't found this alleged Amir guy. Is he in the broom closet with a bunch of children? Ugh how frustrating!

When you turn 10, or 60 in Audiophile years, you might learn such talk is a bit petty

 

[amirswallowsmen]

When you turn 10, or 60 in Audiophile years, you might learn such talk is a bit petty

Do audiophiles age differently than everyone else? Maybe Amir likes boys who are 10 because he claims they are audiophiles and that they're really 60? Help me understand

 

[Purité Audio]

Do audiophiles age differently than everyone else? Maybe Amir likes boys who are 10 because he claims they are audiophiles and that they're really 60? Help me understand

You are Steve Williams and I claim my £5.00.
Keith.

 

[JoeWhip]

I would be shocked if it was. Very few would go this low.

 

[Thomas savage]

You are Steve Williams and I claim my £5.00.
Keith.

i would be very disappointed if this was the case, namely because i expect better put downs and abuse from some one of his standing and obvious flair for rage mail. if it is you steve, come one put some effort in!!