Hiss List (S&R)

[Sancus]

Hello, i am unable to access the hiss list, the google doc just links back to this thread, am i missing something?

There are tabs at the bottom, "Data", etc.

 

[Querkle]

There are tabs at the bottom, "Data", etc.

thank you sad to see neither of my monitors are on there, the hiss on my KRK RP5 G4 is very low, i would guess below 30db whereas im guessing my V6S4 are more like 35-40db

i believe speaker SPL should be included in the list as the higher power an amp can put out justifies having more his

ex. if one speaker has 25db of hiss but a 108db peak spl and another speaker has 32db of hiss and a 115db peak spl i would consider that equal, however id still prefer the louder speaker, because ultimately hiss is hidden during playback.

 

[dasdoing]

hiss seams to be tied to the power of the amp (though it seams that more expensive components can bring it down). Now active monitors have the amp always at full power, the volume knob doesn't change the gain of the amp, but atenuates the signal. So the hiss will always be at it's max. and the higher the max, the higher the hiss. now I never understood why the amps are always run at full power

 

[Querkle]

Same with the KH80s. If you use anything other than the 100dB sensitivity/output level setting the hiss goes up significantly.

so does this mean that the measurement of 20dBA SPL is acquired at only 100dB sensitivity?

it doesnt seem logical to rate a speakers hiss at a lower volume setting than max output, and if so would only make sense to specify hiss levels @ each output level.

i cant compare KH80s to KRK V6S4 if speaker is going to have 15db less headroom, because that is a very large increase.

its like listing how loud a car exhaust is but the measurements for one car are done with a limiter and the other cars are full throttle

in my opinion the hiss list should measure all speakers with the amp fully open

 

[pozz]

so does this mean that the measurement of 20dBA SPL is acquired at only 100dB sensitivity?

it doesnt seem logical to rate a speakers hiss at a lower volume setting than max output, and if so would only make sense to specify hiss levels @ each output level.

i cant compare KH80s to KRK V6S4 if speaker is going to have 15db less headroom, because that is a very large increase.

its like listing how loud a car exhaust is but the measurements for one car are done with a limiter and the other cars are full throttle

in my opinion the hiss list should measure all speakers with the amp fully open

S&R does not specify the procedure for active speaker hiss measurement. The going assumption is that the measurements reflect the most optimal result.

Max output is not affected by sensitivity settings. What changes is the gain and with that the amount of hiss.

I could be wrong in my initial report. It was a long time ago, and all I was really doing was changing the settings and listening from about 30cm away. What I should do is find a quiet room and stick a microphone in the tweeter.

 

[Querkle]

S&R does not specify the procedure for active speaker hiss measurement. The going assumption is that the measurements reflect the most optimal result.

Max output is not affected by sensitivity settings. What changes is the gain and with that the amount of hiss.

I could be wrong in my initial report. It was a long time ago, and all I was really doing was changing the settings and listening from about 30cm away. What I should do is find a quiet room and stick a microphone in the tweeter.

this is fair, i get what your saying

essentially if a speakers default amp setting was 115db at 0dB input level then if set to 100dB at +15dB input level it should give the same level, the setting isnt affecting the max output level of the speaker but its affecting the gain, which means a higher gained input will still be able to drive the speaker close to its max SPL

at this point though, do you really thing a neuman KH120 or KH80 can really reach max SPL with the 100dBA SPL / 0 dB input level?

if thats actually the case, i can consider these, but i dont want to have to move dipswitches every time i want my monitors to be able to hit max SPL

 

[pozz]

this is fair, i get what your saying

essentially if a speakers default amp setting was 115db at 0dB input level then if set to 100dB at +15dB input level it should give the same level, the setting isnt affecting the max output level of the speaker but its affecting the gain, which means a higher gained input will still be able to drive the speaker close to its max SPL

at this point though, do you really thing a neuman KH120 or KH80 can really reach max SPL with the 100dBA SPL / 0 dB input level?

if thats actually the case, i can consider these, but i dont want to have to move dipswitches every time i want my monitors to be able to hit max SPL

You will always hit max SPL if your interface can output the necessary voltage. Those dip switches are to make sure that you are using the cleanest playback range of your interface (which can clip or be underpowered) and match levels with other monitors (which can be of different brands, something common in studios) or subs (same issue as with other monitors). The idea is straightforward, but say you are a studio engineers you should also be calibrating levels with your interface so you know what SPL you are outputting.

 

[Querkle]

You will always hit max SPL if your interface can output the necessary voltage. Those dip switches are to make sure that you are using the cleanest playback range of your interface (which can clip or be underpowered) and match levels with other monitors (which can be of different brands, something common in studios) or subs (same issue as with other monitors). The idea is straightforward, but say you are a studio engineers you should also be calibrating levels with your interface so you know what SPL you are outputting.

ok, yes i see now, i thought the speaker would have been limited to the level at 0dBu, looking up the specs on my DJ mixer i see it can do +8dBu "standard output level" - not sure exactly what this means whereas this article indicates that +19dBu = 0DBFS

https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/203030269-DJM-900-LED-meters-Nexus-USB-Output-level-

If my understanding is correct this would allow a KH120 to reach its max SPL in the 100 dBSPL for 0 dBu with my mixer set to +16dBu

this is awesome cause it means that i could replace my KRK V6S4 with KH120 A and still be able to hit high SPL and also have less hiss when they are not in use, ive genuinely learned so much here, thank you!

i also have a Qudelix 5K, which can do 4VRMS on balanced output, seems like thats about +14dBu based on my calculations.

 

[pozz]

hiss seams to be tied to the power of the amp (though it seams that more expensive components can bring it down). Now active monitors have the amp always at full power, the volume knob doesn't change the gain of the amp, but atenuates the signal. So the hiss will always be at it's max. and the higher the max, the higher the hiss. now I never understood why the amps are always run at full power

I think it will depend pretty heavily on the price, chip and design. Amp chips have processing built in. Gain can be controlled through registry settings. There are likely manufacturers that take care to optimize SNR (and therefore hiss) by dynamically varying gain. I'm sure that would complicate the design significantly.

ok, yes i see now, i thought the speaker would have been limited to the level at 0dBu, looking up the specs on my DJ mixer i see it can do +8dBu "standard output level" - not sure exactly what this means whereas this article indicates that +19dBu = 0DBFS

https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/203030269-DJM-900-LED-meters-Nexus-USB-Output-level-

If my understanding is correct this would allow a KH120 to reach its max SPL in the 100 dBSPL for 0 dBu with my mixer set to +16dBu

this is awesome cause it means that i could replace my KRK V6S4 with KH120 A and still be able to hit high SPL and also have less hiss when they are not in use, ive genuinely learned so much here, thank you!

i also have a Qudelix 5K, which can do 4VRMS on balanced output, seems like thats about +14dBu based on my calculations.

For reference, if anyone's looking in: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm

You would need measurements of your interface to know how the inputs/outputs behave at what signal levels before deciding the optimal staging. Otherwise you've got the right idea.

 

[dasdoing]

I think it will depend pretty heavily on the price, chip and design. Amp chips have processing built in. Gain can be controlled through registry settings. There are likely manufacturers that take care to optimize SNR (and therefore hiss) by dynamically varying gain. I'm sure that would complicate the design significantly.

yea, aother factor is the dsp. if a speaker is dsp corrected it means that it loses headroom, so you need a stronger amp to get to the saem SPL

 

[gasolin75]

Since it's two tweeters hissing, it can be 1-3db higher too. This is so sad, I think KRK RP5 is the top sellers solely for the lack of hiss.

NO

 

[lokomotiv]

Had to send back Rokit 7 G4s because of horrible hiss. Thought maybe faulty speakers. Now bought Adam T7Vs and the hiss is quieter, but still unbearable from short distances. Can easily hear it during podcasts or quiet parts of music. Especially when the music doesn't have much high end content. Hiss appears even when nothing is connected. Tried different outlets around the house too. Still same. Turning down the monitor volume knob doesn't affect it either. Considering sending those back too and at this point I'm quite demotivated to even buy another pair.

Read something about "dirty power" but I'm not sure how true all that is or is it just one of those audiophile myths to sell more gadgets. Read on another forum that someone tried one of those dirty power cleaners, but it did nothing. Also my old Yamaha amp from the 90s didn't hiss that much unless I turned it all the way up, which was never necessary. So either I've been very unlucky with both pairs of monitors, I really do have "dirty power", or it's just normal for many of the budget speakers.

Am considering Yamaha HS 7s next. Based on the spreadsheet, those seem to be much better than T7Vs. Remember reading 2 hiss complaints, but for one it started years after buying them, so probably the amp just gave up. The other one only had hiss when connected to audio interface, which is a different issue and not a problem with the amps. Don't trust anyone at this point though, because some also said they had no hiss with Adam T7Vs either. Maybe companies use different parts at times, so some get lucky or unlucky.

 

[gasolin75]

Had to send back Rokit 7 G4s because of horrible hiss. Thought maybe faulty speakers. Now bought Adam T7Vs and the hiss is quieter, but still unbearable from short distances. Can easily hear it during podcasts or quiet parts of music. Especially when the music doesn't have much high end content. Hiss appears even when nothing is connected. Tried different outlets around the house too. Still same. Turning down the monitor volume knob doesn't affect it either. Considering sending those back too and at this point I'm quite demotivated to even buy another pair.

Read something about "dirty power" but I'm not sure how true all that is or is it just one of those audiophile myths to sell more gadgets. Read on another forum that someone tried one of those dirty power cleaners, but it did nothing. Also my old Yamaha amp from the 90s didn't hiss that much unless I turned it all the way up, which was never necessary. So either I've been very unlucky with both pairs of monitors, I really do have "dirty power", or it's just normal for many of the budget speakers.

Am considering Yamaha HS 7s next. Based on the spreadsheet, those seem to be much better than T7Vs. Remember reading 2 hiss complaints, but for one it started years after buying them, so probably the amp just gave up. The other one only had hiss when connected to audio interface, which is a different issue and not a problem with the amps. Don't trust anyone at this point though, because some also said they had no hiss with Adam T7Vs either. Maybe companies use different parts at times, so some get lucky or unlucky.

Yamaha HS7 still has hiss they can also have coil whine

Consider Mackie mr524 or 624 they are good

Hiss (S&R) - 2021 04 30

Info Notes Link to main thread:,<a href="https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hiss-list-s-r.18050/">https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hiss-list-s-r.18050/</a>

docs.google.com

 

[lokomotiv]

Yamaha HS7 still has hiss they can also have coil whine

Consider Mackie mr524 or 624 they are good

Actually was considering Mackies too. Based on the spreadsheet, HS 7s are slightly better than MR824s, but not a massive difference and no data about MR624. One Thomann review said it has less hiss than others. But then again, Adam T7V has loads of very high reviews. Almost 5 star rating. Don't know if shills, people are deaf or everyone is sitting 3 meters away from the speakers.

 

[gasolin75]

Actually was considering Mackies too. Based on the spreadsheet, HS 7s are slightly better than MR824s, but not a massive difference and no data about MR624. One Thomann review said it has less hiss than others. But then again, Adam T7V has loads of very high reviews. Almost 5 star rating. Don't know if shills, people are deaf or everyone is sitting 3 meters away from the speakers.

Mackie MR524 or Adam Audio T5V. Which one should you buy? Short comparison review

Today we compare Mackie MR524 and Adam Audio T5V studio monitors. Which one should You get for your home studio project? Which works bett...

digitalstereophony.blogspot.com

 

[lokomotiv]

Mackie MR524 or Adam Audio T5V. Which one should you buy? Short comparison review

Today we compare Mackie MR524 and Adam Audio T5V studio monitors. Which one should You get for your home studio project? Which works bett...

digitalstereophony.blogspot.com

That's a promising review. I like that fact that the boxes are less deep. The T7Vs barely fit on the stands behind my desk, especially considering that it's preferable to leave some space for the rear ports. Currently number 1 choice I guess, but I'll do more research. Don't want to send back a 3rd pair. Starting to look suspicious.

 

[gasolin75]

Zeos Pantera say the T5V are the best of the 3 speakers, asr has only revierws the T5V and T8V

 

[tmtomh]

Had to send back Rokit 7 G4s because of horrible hiss. Thought maybe faulty speakers. Now bought Adam T7Vs and the hiss is quieter, but still unbearable from short distances. Can easily hear it during podcasts or quiet parts of music. Especially when the music doesn't have much high end content. Hiss appears even when nothing is connected. Tried different outlets around the house too. Still same. Turning down the monitor volume knob doesn't affect it either. Considering sending those back too and at this point I'm quite demotivated to even buy another pair.

Read something about "dirty power" but I'm not sure how true all that is or is it just one of those audiophile myths to sell more gadgets. Read on another forum that someone tried one of those dirty power cleaners, but it did nothing. Also my old Yamaha amp from the 90s didn't hiss that much unless I turned it all the way up, which was never necessary. So either I've been very unlucky with both pairs of monitors, I really do have "dirty power", or it's just normal for many of the budget speakers.

Am considering Yamaha HS 7s next. Based on the spreadsheet, those seem to be much better than T7Vs. Remember reading 2 hiss complaints, but for one it started years after buying them, so probably the amp just gave up. The other one only had hiss when connected to audio interface, which is a different issue and not a problem with the amps. Don't trust anyone at this point though, because some also said they had no hiss with Adam T7Vs either. Maybe companies use different parts at times, so some get lucky or unlucky.

This might seem like a strange question, but does your old Yamaha amp have a 2-prong or a 3-prong connector at the end of its power cord?

 

[lokomotiv]

This might seem like a strange question, but does your old Yamaha amp have a 2-prong or a 3-prong connector at the end of its power cord?

Unbalanced 2-prong power cord. Yamaha AX-1090.

 

[usern]

Read something about "dirty power" but I'm not sure how true all that is or is it just one of those audiophile myths to sell more gadgets.

I don't think white noise hiss can be fixed with power conditioners. Amir has done some tests with them and most do very very little to 'condition' the signal. Besides white noise most likely comes from amplifier components and the fact that output amp is fully open (volume 100%) 24/7. You control volume with input signal.

Newer Kali Audio speakers ought to have very low self noise and are pretty affordable. Neumann are pricier, but also very quiet.