HiRes makes no sense?

[Chrispy]

A very old video of Amir describing this very topic. Long, but worth watching.

Been familiar with it since posted.

 

[PristineSound]

If the question is, is there an audible difference between CD quality vs. hi res, the answer is yes.


If the question is, can one tell a difference between CD quality vs. Hi-Res, with loudspeaker, without a reference and listening for leisure and enjoyment. The answer is likely mostly overwhelming no.

If the question is, should you take hi res over CD quality. The answer is individual choice based on individual reasoning. For me, f*ck yeah, why wouldn't I, I'm not paying extra for hi-res.

 

[Chrispy]

If the question is, is there an audible difference between CD quality vs. hi res, the answer is yes.


If the question is, can one tell a difference between CD quality vs. Hi-Res, with loudspeaker, without a reference and listening for leisure and enjoyment. The answer is likely mostly overwhelming no.

If the question is, should you take hi res over CD quality. The answer is individual choice based on individual reasoning. For me, f*ck yeah, why wouldn't I, I'm not paying extra for hi-res.

It's the degree of difference and under what particular circumstances to an extent and it's not a big chunk of the equation.

I've not particularly heard that difference but haven't really tried that hard, I was fine with good lossy codecs for cd stuff. You need some tells for the lossy codecs, but some are very very good. FLAC and cheap memory makes that not worth chasing a lot, tho. I'm not paying more for more than cd quality myself. I've got some hi res stuff, even on disc, and it's still more about recording/mastering/mix rather than bit depth/rate.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

If the question is, should you take hi res over CD quality. The answer is individual choice based on individual reasoning. For me, f*ck yeah, why wouldn't I, I'm not paying extra for hi-res.

but but i wanna use other people's reliance on lower res options as a cudgel to shame them and assert my golden eared dominance

/s

 

[PristineSound]

It's the degree of difference and under what particular circumstances to an extent and it's not a big chunk of the equation.

I've not particularly heard that difference but haven't really tried that hard, I was fine with good lossy codecs for cd stuff. You need some tells for the lossy codecs, but some are very very good. FLAC and cheap memory makes that not worth chasing a lot, tho. I'm not paying more for more than cd quality myself. I've got some hi res stuff, even on disc, and it's still more about recording/mastering/mix rather than bit depth/rate.

I paid the same price for Spotify with Hi-Res as I did before they had Hi-Res. Hi Res is not a pricing option for Spotify.

I made sure I flip the Hi-Res on for all of my devices. I also make sure I use the WASAPI feature on my Windows computers.

Again, all of that are part of the base default subscription. Just like I pay a fixed monthly subscription for high bandwidth Internet with unlimited usage.

In rare occasions, when I do buy physical music, I buy CD 98% of the time. Once in a while I will get a SACD, or Blu-ray audio.

 

[Chrispy]

I paid the same price for Spotify with Hi-Res as I did before they had Hi-Res. Hi Res is not a pricing option for Spotify.

I made sure I flip the Hi-Res on for all of my devices. I also make sure I use the WASAPI feature on my Windows computers.

Again, all of that are part of the base default subscription. Just like I pay a fixed monthly subscription for high bandwidth Internet with unlimited usage.

In rare occasions, when I do buy physical music, I buy CD 98% of the time. Once in a while I will get a SACD, or Blu-ray audio.

Still seems not a big part of anything. I use spotify premium and a large library of flac rips of cd and still use optical cds like sacd multich, bluray, dvd, etc. I don't use a computer particularly. Not sure what your subscription limits are, I don't have any aside from basic service speed from the isp. We don't have much option here we now have at least better than the old dsl when I first got here, now have some optical supported decent bandwidth, but not like a bit city. I buy optical discs still myself, and that ratio sounds about right, but that's more about availability....

 

[EJ3]

The reason to use high-res is if it uses a better master and to a smaller extent, avoid the conversion to 44.1/16 which may have been faulty. With storage and bandwidth being essentially free for audio, might as well play the high res version if available to you for the same price.

But I would certainly not pay extra for it unless I KNEW that the 44.1/16 conversion was faulty and/or KNEW that the master was different AND that I preferred that different master.

 

[PristineSound]

Still seems not a big part of anything. I use spotify premium and a large library of flac rips of cd and still use optical cds like sacd multich, bluray, dvd, etc. I don't use a computer particularly. Not sure what your subscription limits are, I don't have any aside from basic service speed from the isp. We don't have much option here we now have at least better than the old dsl when I first got here, now have some optical supported decent bandwidth, but not like a bit city. I buy optical discs still myself, and that ratio sounds about right, but that's more about availability....

There are no limit to how much HiRes I can stream on Spotify, there are no limit on how much data I can use on my Internet and I have no bandwidth issues as I get 500mbps down.

One point of note, most tracks on Spotify are not Hi Res, but they are at least CD quality.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I don't use streaming services at all and my roon library is all over the place in terms of resolution and tbh i have never once noticed

 

[PristineSound]

The other very important thing to note, when SACD and DVD-Audio first came out, and with hi-res music today, when the music was recorded, mixed and mastered, it was analog or CD quality resolution. The vast majority of all music are not from hi-res recording

It wasn't until the mid-90's did you have mass adoption of music being recorded in hi-res.

 

[PristineSound]

I don't use streaming services at all and my roon library is all over the place in terms of resolution and tbh i have never once noticed

I remember before streaming, before YouTube, before P2P, if I wanted a particular track, I have to get into my car, drive to Tower Records and spend $12-$15 to buy the album. I would just make it a thing to do to kill boredom on a slow night.

But I was in high school and college at that time, so I was broke, luckily, so they sold "singles" (just that one hit track) for about $4-$6.

Thank God for streaming, I would not want to go back to those days.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

I remember before streaming, before YouTube, before P2P, if I wanted a particular track, I have to get into my car, drive to Tower Records and spend $12-$15 to buy the album. I would just make it a thing to do to kill boredom on a slow night.

But I was in high school and college at that time, so I was broke, luckily, so they sold "singles" (just that one hit track) for about $4-$6.

Thank God for streaming, I would not want to go back to those days.

*cough* filesharing still exists (and is barely more exploitative of artists than is streaming)
(although I own the vast majority of my files, I do use file sharing to check out things to decide if I want to own them)

 

[krabapple]

Where did I say anyone can tell the difference in a practical listening session?

The question is can one differentiate 16bit vs. 24 bit? Yes or no?

The answer is Yes.

Can I tell 720p from 1080p? Sure if I sit inches from the screen so I can see the pixel structure

But who does that for pleasure ...or cares?

And BTW i forget if Amirs forensic highly contrived method used proper dithering.(and/or noise shaping). Truncating " hi rez" can certainly produce audible artifacts in low level content , but no one should do that. Something we've known since thec1980s.

 

[PristineSound]

Can I tell 720p from 1080p? Sure if I sit inches from the screen so I can see the pixel structure

But who does that for pleasure ...or cares?

And BTW i forget if Amirs forensic highly contrived method used proper dithering.(and/or noise shaping). Truncating " hi rez" can certainly produce audible artifacts in low level content , but no one should do that. Something we've known since thec1980s.

Did you really mentioned 720p? I think you're a little bit behind in time. Does anyone even make TVs or movies in 720p anymore?

Yes, I can tell a difference between 720p vs 1080p from watching distance of 10ft+. Anyone who aren't legally blind can also tell the difference.

But I get the point you are making, though I disagree about people caring. I care, and many others also care.

 

[JKinAK]

I can tell the difference. It’s obvious… on some of my older powered speakers hi-res sounds all messed up. I have reassigned my older powered speakers (4) and heos link (v-1) to listening locations like the garage, bathroom, and those speakers get all whacked out playing many hi-res tracks. Hi-res streams play but the disfunction varies from clipped disorderly highs to sections of the song playing on top of other sections! Those feeble DACs or weak WiFi bandwidth capabilities are screaming in agony. This means no streaming those albums that were/are only available to me in hi-res when those speakers are active. So hi-res streaming complicates my life and provides NO benefit.
Not the difference most people here are discussing but they are definitely audibly different.

 

[PristineSound]

I can tell the difference. It’s obvious… on some of my older powered speakers hi-res sounds all messed up. I have reassigned my older powered speakers (4) and heos link (v-1) to listening locations like the garage, bathroom, and those speakers get all whacked out playing many hi-res tracks. Hi-res streams play but the disfunction varies from clipped disorderly highs to sections of the song playing on top of other sections! Those feeble DACs or weak WiFi bandwidth capabilities are screaming in agony. This means no streaming those albums that were/are only available to me in hi-res when those speakers are active. So hi-res streaming complicates my life and provides NO benefit.
Not the difference most people here are discussing but they are definitely audibly different.

No, it is far from obvious. If it's obvious to you then it's bias.

And it is nearly impossible during a normal listening for enjoyment.

 

[JKinAK]

No, it is far from obvious. If it's obvious to you then it's bias.

And it is nearly impossible during a normal listening for enjoyment.

Apparently I failed to communicate clearly to you.

Please read the entire post you are responding to.

The point I was making is that it’s obvious that not all hi-res files play correctly on many older powered speakers so CD quality digital music (which does play correctly) sounds much better than hi-res files on these devices.

 

[krabapple]

I can tell the difference. It’s obvious… on some of my older powered speakers hi-res sounds all messed up. I have reassigned my older powered speakers (4) and heos link (v-1) to listening locations like the garage, bathroom, and those speakers get all whacked out playing many hi-res tracks. Hi-res streams play but the disfunction varies from clipped disorderly highs to sections of the song playing on top of other sections! Those feeble DACs or weak WiFi bandwidth capabilities are screaming in agony. This means no streaming those albums that were/are only available to me in hi-res when those speakers are active. So hi-res streaming complicates my life and provides NO benefit.
Not the difference most people here are discussing but they are definitely audibly different.

This is the kind silliness that contrived claims about hearing cd vs hi rez foster.

Are you saying your older powerrd speakers suffered audible distortion when playing content over 20 kHz?

And that it makes "feeble DACs" scream?

 

[JKinAK]

Are you saying your older powerrd speakers suffered audible distortion when playing content over 20 kHz?

And that it makes "feeble DACs" scream?

No.
I’m saying that some hi-res music is audibly and dramatically distorted when played through my older powered speakers and, separately, a version 1 heos link based system. This same music is simultaneously playing cleanly through my AV10/Buckeye system.
I don’t know what limitation(s) in the chain are causing this malfunction when reproducing Hi-Res music.
These same devices don’t exhibit this behavior when playing CD quality files.
I won’t be intentionally reproducing the distortion so my observations are limited.
I don’t have measurements - if that’s the gate for your consideration (which I respect) then simply ignore this.

 

[MAB]

No.
I’m saying that some hi-res music is audibly and dramatically distorted when played through my older powered speakers and, separately, a version 1 heos link based system. This same music is simultaneously playing cleanly through my AV10/Buckeye system.
I don’t know what limitation(s) in the chain are causing this malfunction when reproducing Hi-Res music.
These same devices don’t exhibit this behavior when playing CD quality files.
I won’t be intentionally reproducing the distortion so my observations are limited.
I don’t have measurements - if that’s the gate for your consideration (which I respect) then simply ignore this.

Your Denon Heos Version 1 doesn't support HiRes.

Your Heos version 1 has a HiRes compatibility issue, not a HiRes audibility issue.