Hire a professional acoustician

[EB1000]

You could try this clown who says that once he's done telling you where to place the speakers w/o using any instrumentations (and paid 10 grand), the female singer's mouth and breast will appear much larger...

Or you could just let your wife decide on the optimal placement, and then use a good room correction solution to compensate for your wife...

 

[firedog]

I think what you really want is someone experienced setting up listening rooms/video rooms for good sound.
I paid a modest amount for consulting on acoustic panels to lessen echo and help tame an out of control bass response in my room. It worked quite well - both subjectively and when measured afterwards.
I then added DRC (Audiolense) and paid a consultant to help me get the best results. I had done a pretty good job myself, but the consultant improved things another notch.
I went from having a very bass boomy and high end echoey room (small room) to something pretty close to flat at the listening position.
I use that as a basis for adding PEQ if I want to improve/flavor the sound to my taste.

Cost for the consults was a total of $500. It resulted in a vast improvement in the SQ.

If you still have a serious hi-end audio/home theater dealer in your area, some of them are very good at doing both of the above. Will they want you to buy panels from them? Maybe. But some will also provide services for a fee. There are also some good consultants on line who will work with you remotely.

 

[DanielT]

I was taken to a guy’s house by a friend about 15 years ago, where he built a massive 40’ x 20’ (not a rectangle, that’s the rough size) where he brought in two acousticians (one from California and one from England) because he wanted them to watch each other to keep mistakes to a minimum. His room looks like a mini-Carnegie Hall. He had a single chair in the perfect sweet spot and he played some songs from Louis Armstrong.

He had some weird speakers, they were giant two channel, but the woofers were in a separate box from the tweeters, each one driven by a dedicated Krell amp. His turntable was odd as well, some type of air compressor was hidden in the basement with a 40’ long hose that levitated the turntable platter as it spun. Of course he had a dedicated electric line brought in to eliminate any household items that might interfere.

While he was a quintessential “audiophile”, fully believing in every cable myth, that vinyl is better than digital, etc, I do admit the room sound was truly phenomenal. I brought my decibel meter and with everything off it was under 20 dB. This room/equipment was the guy’s entire life savings that he bought for himself after he retired. Probably $1 million to put the whole thing together and he wasn’t rich, just saved for thirty years.

I’m watching if that house ever goes up for sale because there’s no way the real-estate agent is going to know how to properly sell that house. Comps in the neighborhood are about $600k, and I can hear the agent now saying to a prospective client “You can always repurpose this room as a large play area for your children.”

Long story short, yes the acousticians designed/built a great sounding room, but it won’t be cheap.

Yes the question is finding some one who is truly qualified rather than someone who pretends to be!
There are some good companies out there that design concert halls, recording studios and commercial and personal theater but they are very expensive for the common people!

We argue because our basic needs are met while still having excess time.

As for the OP, the answer is apparently, no. No one has hired an acoustician of those who have replied. In another forum, someone did. It wasn’t a good experience.

So then people turn to why. Seems reasonable to me.

BTW, I have run into a couple of people who are acousticians on this forum. So far they have come across as angry, arrogant, and unwilling to share information. Doesn't make me want to hire one.

Your point was already made by the OP, when he started this thread. See below.


So far everyone said you don't need an acoustician but nobody has answered his question. 4 pages of argument but no attention to why the thread was created in the first place.

Why do everyone argue this much?

I repeat myself now and I will now write something I, at least in my world, think is self-evident but ok:

Well, I do hire professional people from time to time. In whatever it may be. In addition, sometimes you have to, by law, have to hire ditto (electrician for example).

If I hire professional craftsmen, for example, it depends on whether I lack knowledge myself, if I do not have time, if I do not think it is fun to do it myself. In that respect, I'm probably like most others. Already mentioned chefs, car mechanics, now electricians, but I can throw in roofs and floor layers, I can put in ... you understand the point.

Most recently, when my sister and I helped my parents move, we hired a moving company to move the heaviest furniture. And so on .... In that category, hiring an acoustician would fall for me. In my case, given my level of HiFi which is not "High End", I consider it too expensive. But as I said, it's me. Others may think the investment is worth the price.

Edit:
By the way, I think the analogy of hiring a professional chef is good. I like to cook, sometimes it can even be really good (if I may brag), sometimes not so tasty but it is to test yourself and get better that is the fun, I think. Of course I could hire a professional chef the next time I have a party, the food would certainly be better than what I would cook but I think it's fun to fix it myself. The parable is not entirely true because the food is eaten. What a professional acoustician would help with will remain.

 

[GalZohar]

The difference with a professional chef is that you only enjoy him once. Something for your house is more of a long term benefit that you'll use over and over. And yet again, depends on how much you use it, how much you actually need it rather than just want it, and how much you can afford for it, you may or may not want to hire a professional.

And in acoustics it's also difficult to know if that professional would justify his cost even if all the above conditions are met. Much easier to choose a Chef. An engineer is also difficult to pick but in the engineer case you often don't have a choice.

 

[youngho]

Hire a professional acoustician. Anyone done that? I can suspect that it is well-invested money regarding the hunt for good sound. Or what do you think? A professional acoustician who goes through the conditions in the listening room who gives tips and advice on how the room can be optimized based on maximum best sound reproduction. For example furniture, acoustic panels, subwoofers (how many and placement ), what type of speakers are best suited for the listening room and so on.

If you intend to create a dedicated listening room (for home cinema and / or for two channel music), I can imagine that it really makes sense to hire a professional.

Nowadays with the internet you can always ask on a forum like this where there are knowledgeable and experienced people who can give tips and advice regarding acoustics. But sill.

If building from scratch, I think it's extremely reasonable to hire a professional, which we did for our basement media room. Professionals can have specialized tools and software, as well as practical experience and knowledge that would be very difficult to glean, even with extensive reading.

Take a look at the sample reports from https://rediacoustics.com/, for example. Or the services from Keith Yates Design here: https://keithyates.com/our-services/, one result being https://www.avsforum.com/threads/ht-of-the-month-the-hahn-theater.2544881/. I also think that projects like https://wsdg.com/projects-items/the-ultimate-home-theater/ from WSDG would be difficult to DIY.

Young-Ho

 

[Andysu]

hire a professional , no thanks they scam and rip people off

 

[Tangband]

It can probably cost a lot to hire a professional. I do not have the money for that. I do not think so anyway. Or rather money can be obtained, but then it should REALLY be worth it.Maybe that's why the person Frgirard referring to who hired professionals was disappointed? Very high (too high?) expectations that were not met.

I mostly created the thread of general interest.

It is always possible to hire a student who is studying to be an acoustician. Note at the moment there is nothing I will do because I am looking at new housing.Maybe in the new accommodation. It depends and it depends on a lot. But you should never say never.

About optimal 2-channel playback : If you have some knowledge about ”the Tune method” , this is absolutely the first step to do. The cost is zero, and everyone except tone-deaf people can learn the method.

Here is how to do it :

https://www.lejonklou.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Tune-Method.pdf

After this important step is done - look at the first near reflections from the loudspeakers. You can use a mirror for this - put it on the sidewalls and figure out where you can see your loudspeakers from the listening position. if you can do this - put diffusion material on that spot. If the distance to the sidewalls are more than 4 meters from the loudspeaker,
no diffusion material are needed.

Because 2 channel sound is seriously flawed at the beginning, the sound needs some help from late reflections from the walls in the room - the optimal distance for this is about 25 ms = 8,5 meters delayed reflections from the speakers.
This is also (often) the same optimal distance for a choral or ensemble to the sidewalls when you are making good, acoustical recordings with only 2-channels and two microphones, in a church or in a concert hall.

Mutichannel sound is a whole different thing - you can read about how THX cinema salons are made . The cost is, again - zero, but there is a lot to learn and it might take a couple of months to understand what to do , when a real acustician can do this in an hour.

 

[Sokel]

The acoustic professional I got suggested to put me out of my misery on the spot when he first saw my new,empty listening space.
85m²,3.2m ceiling,totally uneven dimensions (far off from rectangular).
If not the first solution,he suggested a really small system with a kind of booth around it,like the ones for singers,etc
.The third solution is what I'm building for some time now,where the first thing was custom (not DIY) speakers,acoustic treatment from the mids up (according to my taste to a degree,I like a little live spaces,dead environment depress me) and a lot of moaning when I suggested certain high-end brands and some things I already had.Low end needs a lot and will take some time.

To come to a conclusion,I'd be lost without him and probably I would have spend a lot more to no known result,based on my own "opinions" and the usual forums.Room is the main speaker as it comes,that's the hard truth.

 

[DanielT]

About optimal 2-channel playback : If you have some knowledge about ”the Tune method” , this is absolutely the first step to do. The cost is zero, and everyone except tone-deaf people can learn the method.

Here is how to do it :

https://www.lejonklou.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Tune-Method.pdf

After this important step is done - look at the first near reflections from the loudspeakers. You can use a mirror for this - put it on the sidewalls and figure out where you can see your loudspeakers from the listening position. if you can do this - put diffusion material on that spot. If the distance to the sidewalls are more than 4 meters from the loudspeaker,
no diffusion material are needed.

Because 2 channel sound is seriously flawed at the beginning, the sound needs some help from late reflections from the walls in the room - the optimal distance for this is about 25 ms = 8,5 meters delayed reflections from the speakers.
This is also (often) the same optimal distance for a choral or ensemble to the sidewalls when you are making good, acoustical recordings with only 2-channels and two microphones, in a church or in a concert hall.

Mutichannel sound is a whole different thing - you can read about how THX cinema salons are made . The cost is, again - zero, but there is a lot to learn and it might take a couple of months to understand what to do , when a real acustician can do this in an hour.

Interesting! Thanks for the tip Tangband.

The acoustic professional I got suggested to put me out of my misery on the spot when he first saw my new,empty listening space.
85m²,3.2m ceiling,totally uneven dimensions (far off from rectangular).
If not the first solution,he suggested a really small system with a kind of booth around it,like the ones for singers,etc
.The third solution is what I'm building for some time now,where the first thing was custom (not DIY) speakers,acoustic treatment from the mids up (according to my taste to a degree,I like a little live spaces,dead environment depress me) and a lot of moaning when I suggested certain high-end brands and some things I already had.Low end needs a lot and will take some time.

To come to a conclusion,I'd be lost without him and probably I would have spend a lot more to no known result,based on my own "opinions" and the usual forums.Room is the main speaker as it comes,that's the hard truth.

Then I'm lucky! I like living room, listening room with a lot of colors and furniture. Good sound reproduction then (hopefully) follows as a bonus.

I'm tired of the stripped-down, bare, white kind of style. Here are some examples.
(Not my living room in the pictures).

I like this:
Looks a bit like you visit grandma and grandpa. Maybe this old type of decor has become more popular in recent years? I do not know. I do not follow the latest lifestyle, interior design trends.

_____
I do not like this style at all:

 

[Sokel]

Interesting! Thanks for the tip Tangband.


Then I'm lucky! I like living room, listening room with a lot of colors and furniture. Good sound reproduction then (hopefully) follows as a bonus.

I'm tired of the stripped-down, bare, white kind of style. Here are some examples.
(Not my living room in the pictures).

I like this:
Looks a bit like you visit grandma and grandpa. Maybe this old type of decor has become more popular in recent years? I do not know. I do not follow the latest lifestyle, interior design trends.
View attachment 208397

You got me with this picture with the books.
Ideally all around the room!(my sofa is 3,20m,the usual listening position is starting on the exact sweet spot and at the end laying and air-conducting )

 

[DanielT]

You got me with this picture with the books.
Ideally all around the room!(my sofa is 3,20m,the usual listening position is starting on the exact sweet spot and at the end laying and air-conducting )

Yup, living shelf with books. Nice and stylish. On that point, I'm pretty conservative.

Something like this:

I can also think to have a thick carpet throughout the living room.Maybe not the most optimal when it comes to cleaning and vacuuming, but nice.

(not my living room in the pictures)

Edit:
If there are any who need to hire professional acousticians, there are exhibitors at HiFi fairs. Sure, there can be many in the listening room and you will not hear, listening in optimal sweetspot but still.

Pictures from a fair (which I was not at) a few weeks ago, as an example:

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