• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

High Sensitivity Speakers Issues

mhardy6647

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
3,760
Likes
7,129
Klipsch definitely "lie" about their sensitivity specs. The Polk seems like maybe a decent option. At that budget, you're going to be limited to mostly bookshelf speakers, where 90+ db sensitivity is pretty rare.
They do indeed :) -- although, in Klipsch's defense*, the usual disclaimer in the trade rags when they point out the disparity between measured and claimed sensitivity is that Klipsch adds in some room effects to bolster their claims.

The larger problem is the ahem "sound signature" of many if not most of Klipsch's products (past & present) -- a harsh, aggressive, rough-and-tumble presentation that is fun and can even sound good with some source material, but can be fatiguing if not downright grating with many real-world recordings (even some that generally are felt to be 'good sounding' when heard on other loudspeakers).

For the OP's benefit -- you might want to consider some "pro" loudspeakers, depending upon your application, room size, and expectations. You might be surprised. It is a try before you buy scenario, though, if at all possible.

There are also interesting vintage (or hybrid, so to speak, modern & vintage amalgamation) options -- besides Klipsch, that is. ;)

DSC_0938 (3) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

There are also interesting if slightly esoteric (and perhaps not altogether satisfying, depending on individual taste & expectations) options from, e.g., Fostex that can result in affordable (e.g., Fostex enclosure + driver kits), high-ish sensitivity, and (perhaps even more important) easy-to-drive loudspeakers for flea- and low-powered amplifiers.

_________________
* anyone who "knows" me online knows that, as a former "Heritage" Klipsch owner, I am not much of a defender of the folks (originally) from Hope, Arkansas -- although I do still admire Col. Paul W. Klipsch's iconoclastic character. ;)
 
Last edited:

More Dynamics Please

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2020
Messages
387
Likes
488
Location
USA
The proof of the pudding for speaker manufacturer sensitivity claims is verified through independent testing and measurements. Some speaker brands regularly produce independently measured sensitivity close to manufacturer specifications and some don't. Regardless of what anyone at Klipsch may claim about the Klipsch testing method their speaker sensitivity regularly measures significantly lower than claimed in independent testing. That suggests that the Klipsch testing method is out of step with the rest of the speaker community.
 
OP
S

Silgalias

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
41
Likes
13
At 89-90dB sensitivity you'll need a push pull amp of 15x15 watts at least and it will need a 4 ohm tap (because most modern speakers dip fairly low). And yes, before anyone asks, valve watts are exactly the same as transistor watts. So you'd be looking at push pull EL84, EL34, KT88/6550, 6L6, that kind of amp.

FYI regarding Dared (or any non-western market gear), I'd make sure it has the relevant certifications to satisfy my insurance in case it burns my house down. They're pretty badly made and typically not designed for the correct mains voltage (220 instead of 240 volts) which causes the power supply to run hot. And yes, I've repaired amps made by them, so this is not hearsay.

Another poster suggested a solid state amp. You'd be doing yourself a favor, trust me, as it opens up the market to a much wider selection of speakers. With tube amps, you can't have cheap AND safe AND reliable.

I was also thinking an EL34 or KT88 as push pull would give more Watts to play with.
 
OP
S

Silgalias

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
41
Likes
13
At 89-90dB sensitivity you'll need a push pull amp of 15x15 watts at least and it will need a 4 ohm tap (because most modern speakers dip fairly low). And yes, before anyone asks, valve watts are exactly the same as transistor watts. So you'd be looking at push pull EL84, EL34, KT88/6550, 6L6, that kind of amp.

FYI regarding Dared (or any non-western market gear), I'd make sure it has the relevant certifications to satisfy my insurance in case it burns my house down. They're pretty badly made and typically not designed for the correct mains voltage (220 instead of 240 volts) which causes the power supply to run hot. And yes, I've repaired amps made by them, so this is not hearsay.

Another poster suggested a solid state amp. You'd be doing yourself a favor, trust me, as it opens up the market to a much wider selection of speakers. With tube amps, you can't have cheap AND safe AND reliable.

I have always gone with solid state in the past. But have decided to have a fling with valves whilst cooped up here in sunny England.
I have to say from my first impressions of the Dared MP 5BT that I have been totally amazed. The customer service I have received from the seller NewSong is simply some of the best I have ever encountered the amp arrived to UK from Shenzhen in less than 4 days! The amp itself is very well built and hand soldered, I have seen the pictures of it opened up by a reviewer who is an electrical engineer. The sound from it was fantastic it has made my Prog and Punk playlists shine from the moment it was turned on, that's before it had even warmed up, and it just got better as it did. And this is without burn in. I have run it for hours without it getting more than warm. It is not at all fatiguing in fact it warms up otherwise fatiguing IEM`s my BQEYZ Spring 2`s moved me to tears through this amp and my Sundara`s have just got even better making me one very happy bunny.
I could not do other than recommend it to all!
 
OP
S

Silgalias

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
41
Likes
13
After some more reading I have my focus on Triangle Borea BR02 at 89dB or the BR03 at 90dB though there is also the Cambridge Audio SX50 from Richersounds that claims 90dB though I am not sure about that as other listings have it at 87dB so either it is a revised model or they are lying.
I understand that at this size speaker and price point I am only going to get so far. But for me the journey is just as important as the destination and researching the best that I can find for my £`s is a big part of the fun so thanks to all for your input. :D

edit: just listened to Here Come The Warm Jets on the Dared MP5 and it really took me back to the smoke filled rooms of my past and that caramel valve sound. Nice!!!
 

mhardy6647

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
3,760
Likes
7,129
edit: just listened to Here Come The Warm Jets on the Dared MP5 and it really took me back to the smoke filled rooms of my past and that caramel valve sound. Nice!!!
Just don't ask anyone here to quantify caramel valve sound, OK? ;)
 

richard12511

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
4,241
Likes
6,226
With any speaker other than a very large horn based speaker where you can get away with a 7W SET amp, you'll need something like 25W, usually from EL-34s or something else in that class. It also depends on the music you typically listen to and how loud. A speaker doesn't really qualify as having high efficiency unless its honestly rated above 90dB.

I think it's honestly gonna be hard to find bookshelf speakers with more than 90dB efficiency for less than $300. Best bet is probably the used market, where it may be possible. That or DIY?

I agree with @Blumlein 88 that it makes more sense to get the speakers you want first, given that they comprise 95+% of the sound you hear. Going amp first, you're potentially compromising the 95% just to optimize the last 5%(that's probably even a bit generous).

That said, I assume there are other reasons involved for wanting that amp. In that case, I would really check out used markets around you, and take a good look at ebay. I've seen some pretty good deals on Ebay. The cheapest truly high efficiency design I'm aware of is the PSA MT-110M, but would require a pretty good used deal. Maybe check out the Power sound audio thread on AVS and let them know you're in the market. Those little speakers should rock pretty hard with a low power tube amp.
 

richard12511

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
4,241
Likes
6,226
After some more reading I have my focus on Triangle Borea BR02 at 89dB or the BR03 at 90dB though there is also the Cambridge Audio SX50 from Richersounds that claims 90dB though I am not sure about that as other listings have it at 87dB so either it is a revised model or they are lying.
I understand that at this size speaker and price point I am only going to get so far. But for me the journey is just as important as the destination and researching the best that I can find for my £`s is a big part of the fun so thanks to all for your input. :D

edit: just listened to Here Come The Warm Jets on the Dared MP5 and it really took me back to the smoke filled rooms of my past and that caramel valve sound. Nice!!!

Amir really liked the Triangle tower that was measured here.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
12,869
Likes
19,536
It's the sound of an old tube Amp where the old tubes have a darkened caramel color on the glass and the sound to match.
 
Last edited:
OP
S

Silgalias

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
41
Likes
13
Lets see... Thicker, fuller sound, warm with a heavier resonance feels like the music wraps you in a blanket! Metaphor to describe metaphor sorry! :D
 

mhardy6647

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
3,760
Likes
7,129
Altec 416s?
515B

The enclosures were built for, and I used them with, 604E Duplexes for a number of years. The dispersion on the treble horns on the Duplexes left me wanting more, so I started fiddling around. :rolleyes:

During the swap:

DSC_8290 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Lets see... Thicker, fuller sound, warm with a heavier resonance feels like the music wraps you in a blanket! Metaphor to describe metaphor sorry! :D
Actually, it's a simile wrapped in a metaphor. :cool:
 
OP
S

Silgalias

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2021
Messages
41
Likes
13
Doesn't sound appealing. I'll pass. :)

The beauty of art is that it doesn`t have to appeal to all. I love Rembrandt and I love Dali but I think Basquiat are the doodles of a child. I appreciate the pure clean analytical sound of a solid state and also coloured textured sound of a valve.
 

MakeMineVinyl

Major Contributor
Manufacturer
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
2,240
Likes
3,343
Location
Santa Fe, NM
515B

The enclosures were built for, and I used them with, 604E Duplexes for a number of years. The dispersion on the treble horns on the Duplexes left me wanting more, so I started fiddling around. :rolleyes:

During the swap:

DSC_8290 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr


Actually, it's a simile wrapped in a metaphor. :cool:
This is an 8 ohm 416/515 cone I've had laying around since my engineering days at Altec. Note that the voice coil is only a bit wider than the magnetic gap - long throw this ain't, but very high efficiency, especially in a horn cabinet so it doesn't have to move much. :p
PXL_20210625_152820226~2.jpg
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom