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High Resolution Audio: Does It Matter?

NorthSky

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Can someone please explain to me WHY it matters ?
Because music matters. Whatever sounds good, it don't matter what explanation.
We're all music searchers, independent of each other, making our own choice.
There is no absolute but each one's own journey towards musical bliss.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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Your complete non-answer to even a single question or point in my post hereby noted.
Ah, don’t want to be on your schiit list. I had you momentarily confused you with that other K-guy.

On Meyer-Moran, Meyer’s published retreat from the scientific validity of his study seems to have disappeared from the web. I believe it was in Letters to the JAES in response to a highly critical letter from statistician Dr. David Dranove of Northwestern University. Dranove’s letter is still available from the AES for a fee.

I hate Michael Lavorgna, but if you will accept his heresay, Meyer is quoted here:

https://www.audiostream.com/content/its-official-people-can-hear-high-res

Ignore the rest, if you wish, but see paragraph 5 below the photo. Trust me, I saw Meyer’s entire response prior to that. I had also participated in a lengthy and spirited thread years ago at sa-cd.net including participation by Moran and Dranove. I also had several private exchanges with Moran, but he was highly defensive. Nice guy, though. Paradoxically, he was looking to buy an SACD player, if you can believe it.

Please also reread the detailed reasons for elimination of the M&M study in the Reiss paper. And, also please reread Amir’s commentary in the first post in this very thread. To Amir’s credit, I think his critique predated Reiss’s. And, I also seem to recall a prior critical letter by Amir to the AES on M&M.

So, two acknowledged experts in audio science (check their CV’s) are highly critical of the M&M study on objective grounds. There are others.

Do you still wish to accept M&M as reliable?
 
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One I was thinking of from several years ago is Barry Diament, who used to hang around CA Forum. He was clear that he heard slightly better sound at 192k over 96k.
He also claims that wav sounds better than flac:
I was also not enamored of the .flac format in which the vendors delivered their downloads. While called a “lossless” way to reduce file size, making for convenient, faster download times, the results were not so lossless according to everyone participating in the comparison tests we ran in my studio.
[...]
Fans of the so-called “lossless” formats compare them to zipping a word processor file. Yes, the zipped words come back intact, even though I can’t say I find the same to be true of flac’d music.

So what about zipped music? We’ve used zipped music files before, such as those on the Format Comparison page of the Soundkeeper Recordings website. And when unzipped, no one who participated in our tests could differentiate between the source file and the copy that had been zipped.
 

derp1n

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The music loses a touch of air when you squash all the bits together with FLAC. :rolleyes:
 

Wombat

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The word 'philosophy' used in PhD means 'lover of wisdom'. It does not infer a level of philosophical understanding but rather a level of knowledge and understanding in a particular academic discipline.
Philosophers may be held in high esteem by a few but generally they are unknown or of little interest to most people.
 
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Dismayed

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Interesting null test. I'll pass on HD audio.

 

SIY

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The word 'philosophy' used in PhD means 'lover of wisdom'. It does not infer a level of philosophical understanding but rather a level of knowledge and understanding in a particular academic discipline.
Its use is historical. Science was once called "natural philosophy."

See here for some background. And it's entertaining to read Richard Feynman's thoughts on philosophy, should you have a chance to do so.
 

Thomas savage

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I think much of the high res debate misses the point, my own view is the key determinate of source quality is the recording/mastering. A really well recorded and mastered performance will sound good almost regardless of format. Over compressed badly recorded junk will sound like junk regardless of how high res it is.
Precisely.
 

solderdude

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The music loses a touch of air when you squash all the bits together with FLAC. :rolleyes:
That's because the FLAC container is smaller and is filled with relatively more bits so there remains less room for air in that container. o_O
Of course this could depend on which FLAC compression is used.
Maybe using a compressor could help when de-inflating the file.
That compressor could add the air a bit quicker.
 

Frank Dernie

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Because music matters. Whatever sounds good, it don't matter what explanation.
We're all music searchers, independent of each other, making our own choice.
There is no absolute but each one's own journey towards musical bliss.
Quite, that is why hi-res doesn't matter, only the music does.
 

Wombat

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Interesting null test. I'll pass on HD audio.


That minimal difference could be due to the analysis-software accuracy, so even less of a difference.
 

Sal1950

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Along with the MQA BS, isn't this something we should have passed by quite some time ago.
From recording at high rez rates, thru storing and delivering. the ability to handle pipes this size have become a non-issue over the last decade.
Possibly the only thing worth debating is whither there is any value in paying extra for bigger files from places like HDTracks or are we just getting hustled. I believe about 95% of the members here know it's a hustle to sell at 3 or 4 different rates, each with a increase in cost. The reality of which is, even if you factor in the sellers backend costs for storage, that would disappear if they only stocked one size.
What a joke the whole mess is.
 

SIY

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I had a conversation today with one of the bright young guys working for me, who has been having a devil of a time with one of our customers- he has been completely swamped with chasing details of an irrelevant measurement. "The only thing harder than solving a problem is solving a non-problem."

For some reason, this thread came to mind...
 

Wombat

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I had a conversation today with one of the bright young guys working for me, who has been having a devil of a time with one of our customers- he has been completely swamped with chasing details of an irrelevant measurement. "The only thing harder than solving a problem is solving a non-problem."

For some reason, this thread came to mind...

I find non-problems easy to fix from a problem solving position.

If you have to suck-up to the nuisance for some other reason(e.g. can't afford to lose their business, mother-in-law, etc.) then that is another problem. ;)
 
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svart-hvitt

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I find non-problems easy to fix from a problem solving position.

If you have to suck-up to the nuisance for some other reason(e.g. can't afford to lose their business, mother-in-law, etc.) then that is another issue.
For solving of non-problems, go to the shrink (which, ironically, is an admission that non-problems are still problems, yet of another kind).

For «real» problems, go to the plumber.

;)
 

Soniclife

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Possibly they were or possibly not. We can speculate all day.
We don't need to speculate, everyone is influenced by expectation bias, only doing the tests blind can remove it.

My guess is the more someone thinks they are above expectation bias, the more they are influenced by it.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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We don't need to speculate, everyone is influenced by expectation bias, only doing the tests blind can remove it.

My guess is the more someone thinks they are above expectation bias, the more they are influenced by it.
I don’t disagree that everyone is potentially influenced by expectation or other biases. Whether they were or not in a particular decision or test, though, is unknown. Also, I merely assumed some engineers who had chosen hirez for recording may have done tests. I have no idea whether they were done blind or not, nor does anyone else outside their immediate circle, since they did not publish any test results. So, I am only speculating, myself, as is everyone else who assumes those engineering choices must necessarily have been invalid.

So, we are all speculating, likely all with heavy doses of whatever biases pro and con we already have.
 

Soniclife

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I merely assumed some engineers who had chosen hirez for recording may have done tests. I have no idea whether they were done blind or not, nor does anyone else outside their immediate circle, since they did not publish any test results.
I'm quite convinced that anyone who spend the time and effort to do a level matched controlled test, and passed it when so many have failed, would have mentioned it when talking about it, for a sound engineer it's a 'my ears are better than yours' boast if nothing else, and they are never shy about promoting themselves, for good reason.
 

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