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High Performance mid-priced reference DACs

Phison Audio - Sonny

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Well..

Choose a DAC with as few inputs and outputs as, use a DAC that has ES9018K2M or AK4490.

Don't choose a model with a shiny display.

Make sure that they use ADA4898 or simelar in the output.

Why choose a cheap DAC when you can get a DAC with ES9028/9038PRO or AK4497? Very simple ... the are expensive so if you want a cheap good performing DAC, then the DAC chip has to be cheap to have budget for low noise powersupply and highest performing opamps.

Shiny display and control also costs money that could be used on the Circuit instead.

People simply forget those facts or does not know it.

BR

Sonny
 

Mivera

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Well..

Choose a DAC with as few inputs and outputs as, use a DAC that has ES9018K2M or AK4490.

Don't choose a model with a shiny display.

Make sure that they use ADA4898 or simelar in the output.

Why choose a cheap DAC when you can get a DAC with ES9028/9038PRO or AK4497? Very simple ... the are expensive so if you want a cheap good performing DAC, then the DAC chip has to be cheap to have budget for low noise powersupply and highest performing opamps.

Shiny display and control also costs money that could be used on the Circuit instead.

People simply forget those facts or does not know it.

BR

Sonny

Around here parts quality doesn't matter. Higher measuring numbers are automatically better every time. And above all must be mass produced in China by sweatshop workers. Low BOM of internal parts is preferable. Unless of course it's the DAC chip itself. As it's very popular to judge an entire DAC based on the chip alone. Don't send an imbalance to the "groupthink".
 

Phison Audio - Sonny

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The thread says "High Performance mid-priced reference DACs"..

And if you read there is a limit on the cost, so i am constructive giving suggestion to what to look after.

Mike, what does it bring you and others to write the following???

"Around here parts quality doesn't matter. Higher measuring numbers are automatically better every time. And above all must be mass produced in China by sweatshop workers. Low BOM of internal parts is preferable. Unless of course it's the DAC chip itself. As it's very popular to judge an entire DAC based on the chip alone. Don't send an imbalance to the "groupthink".

- Sonny
 

Mivera

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The thread says "High Performance mid-priced reference DACs"..

And if you read there is a limit on the cost, so i am constructive giving suggestion to what to look after.

Mike, what does it bring you and others to write the following???

"Around here parts quality doesn't matter. Higher measuring numbers are automatically better every time. And above all must be mass produced in China by sweatshop workers. Low BOM of internal parts is preferable. Unless of course it's the DAC chip itself. As it's very popular to judge an entire DAC based on the chip alone. Don't send an imbalance to the "groupthink".

- Sonny

Sonny I only said those things to fit in. If you want to make friends you need to think and act the same as others around you.
 

watchnerd

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Well..

Choose a DAC with as few inputs and outputs as, use a DAC that has ES9018K2M or AK4490.

Picking a DAC solely on the chip is silly -- one can make a crap implementation of a AK4490 or ESS Pro (in fact, eBay is full of them) that is trounced by an older, cheaper chip with a better implementation.
 

Mivera

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Picking a DAC solely on the chip is silly -- one can make a crap implementation of a AK4490 or ESS Pro (in fact, eBay is full of them) that is trounced by an older, cheaper chip with a better implementation.

But dual mono is a must for that extra 3dB of dynamic range. Especially when the analog stage after it has 15dB worse dynamic range than the chip itself in stereo mode.
 

watchnerd

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But dual mono is a must for that extra 3dB of dynamic range. Especially when the analog stage after it has 15dB worse dynamic range than the chip itself in stereo mode.

Dual mono is usually done for better crosstalk / stereo separation.
 

Mivera

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Dual mono is usually done for better crosstalk / stereo separation.

In reality it's done so audiophiles who don't know any better think it's better. Ask Sonny why he doesn't use dual mono chips.
 

March Audio

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In reality it's done so audiophiles who don't know any better think it's better. Ask Sonny why he doesn't use dual mono chips.
What like lower phase noise clocks? ;)

What you are missing Mike is the context. As has already been mentioned, individual components in themselves are pretty meaningless as it is the whole product performance that counts. Just throwing in boutique components and hoping for the best without due whole design consideration (and validation) is dumb.
 
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Mivera

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What like lower phase noise clocks? ;)

What you are missing Mike is the context. As has already been mentioned individual components in themselves are pretty meaningless as it is the whole product performance that counts. Just throwing in boutique components without due whole design consideration is dumb.

You can only polish a turd so much. Once you get the engineering perfected, the only way to improve is by better quality components. And if you're seeking the best sound, the less useless gimmicks the better. Looking inside that RME DAC it looks like plethora of complexity only to add additional features, not optimize quality. But to the layman it's the only the bling that matters.
 

Mivera

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March Audio

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Mike, what you did was totally amateur. You have no electronics knowledge and bodged together somebody elses boards badly into a case.

Can you troll elsewhere and stop disrupting the thread and forum in general?
 

Mivera

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Mike, what you did was totally amateur.

Can you troll elsewhere and stop disrupting the thread and forum in general?

Yes I know so amateur that this man is upgrading to my next gen system. He ditched his Total DAC, along with dozens of others, but the Purestream isn't going anywhere unless replaced with something better from me. 2nd best DAC he's ever heard next to the MSB Select DAC 2. Same with Amir's buddy. He's owned everything as well. Similar feedback from him. Why do you think Amir is so mad? Because he know's it's true. That's what inspired the recent attacks.
 

March Audio

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I couldnt care less about some foolish audiophiles subjective opinion. I have seen inside your dac and wouldnt touch it with a barge pole. Plain amateur, as is your understanding of audio and product design.
 

Mivera

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Oh sorry for straying off topic. What I meant was :

"Around here parts quality doesn't matter. Higher measuring numbers are automatically better every time. And above all must be mass produced in China by sweatshop workers. Low BOM of internal parts is preferable. Unless of course it's the DAC chip itself. As it's very popular to judge an entire DAC based on the chip alone. Don't send an imbalance to the "groupthink".

There all better now :)
 

Phison Audio - Sonny

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Mike.

8 comments in 1,5 hour, and what you did was hijacking a thread.

5 of them did not bring any useful info other than you anger.

1 stated something about from stereo to mono difference of 3 dB and 15 dB worse performance on the analog stage... but Which dac, which analog stage, total configuration, is it theory numbers or an ready build unit including system noise and hum?

Then the 2 is about your own DAC, which is not what the talk/chat here is about.

if you read the first comment it says: "Any other candidates you all can think of? What is the "in" DAC these days up to $2,000?"

It says up to 2000$ .. So by mention your own DAC for under 3000$ you are above the windows of max. 2000$.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Mivera

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Sonny you must have missed the part where BE718 called me misguided because I agreed with what you said. More than 1 Chinese DAC with dual chips has at least 15db worse dynamic range from the analog outs than the chip itself. The Oppo Sonica for example boasts about the 140dB dynamic range of the ESS 9038 chip, yet only has 120db dynamic range from the analog outs.

Here's a couple ESS9038Pro DAC's for under $2000. What makes your new PD2 DAC board better?

http://store.matrix-digi.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=63

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/l-k-s...bu-for-dop-usb-i2s-optical-audio-decoder.html
 

Mivera

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BTW the LKS MH-DA004 is the only DAC I've ever heard that can beat my Purestream. However this is my subjective opinion. For only $1459 shipped it's a pretty killer deal. Must be the 135dB dynamic range.
 

Phison Audio - Sonny

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Sonny you must have missed the part where BE718 called me misguided because I agreed with what you said. More than 1 Chinese DAC with dual chips has at least 15db worse dynamic range from the analog outs than the chip itself. The Oppo Sonica for example boasts about the 140dB dynamic range of the ESS 9038 chip, yet only has 120db dynamic range from the analog outs.

Here's a couple ESS9038Pro DAC's for under $2000. What makes your new PD2 DAC board better?

http://store.matrix-digi.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=63

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/l-k-s...bu-for-dop-usb-i2s-optical-audio-decoder.html

"What makes your new PD2 DAC board better?" That is not the discussion here.

"BTW the LKS MH-DA004 is the only DAC I've ever heard that can beat my Purestream" So you have one? Share pictures and information. Not printout from brochure and datasheets or website.
 
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