High(ish) end passive speakers for 2-channel audio kit recommendations

[datrumole]

I recently went through a similar journey. I considered all the options mentioned and then some. I was coming from the Fusion 8s. I eventually landed on the the Critons 2TDs. I enjoyed them so much I went for the tweeter upgrade with superior crossover parts. No regrets. There's not anything I could say about them that you probably haven't already found on the net. It's a fantastic speaker.

wonder how the MTM Apollos/Helix's would fair against these for a much lower price point

 

[obkook]

I recently went through a similar journey. I considered all the options mentioned and then some. I was coming from the Fusion 8s. I eventually landed on the the Critons 2TDs. I enjoyed them so much I went for the tweeter upgrade with superior crossover parts. No regrets. There's not anything I could say about them that you probably haven't already found on the net. It's a fantastic speaker.

@AudioSQ - thanks, this is great feedback! I'm curious why you chose the 2TDs over the 1TD? And did you also consider the BMR?

I'm sure that I'll be satisfied with whatever I end up choosing, but this is definitely part of the fun!

@datrumole - great tip on using a CNC shop to get a bit closer to the entire build. I do also like horns and at some point I'll need to set up a second system for HT or possibly a SET amp. How many systems is too many???

@617 - Thanks for helping me not overthink this too much. What you say makes a ton of sense.

 

[rdenney]

Before launching into DIY speakers, understand that they are aimed at those who build things as part of the hobby. If that describes you, the proceed with a clear conscience and a happy heart.

But if you are considering DIY only as the path to performance/price, then consider carefully. DIY speakers builds are, as you know, a lot of work, and you won't get paid a nickel for the time you put into the build. They are not necessarily cheaper than similarly performing speakers, and with some there won't be measurements beyond on-axis response.

Taking the work of Toole and Olive, looks for speakers with smooth on-axis anechoic response and wide directivity as shown by off-axis response following the same general shape as on-axis response, at least as wide as what it takes to get to cover the first reflections. Resonances that affect on and off-axis response curves similarly can be adjusted out with equalization.

Also consider how loud you want the speakers to be able to play. This is harder to figure out. Lots of speakers break up and go non-linear well under what some might call "reference loudness". Whether that is loud enough for you depends on how loud you want to make it, how close you are to the speakers, and how much your room keeps sound alive rather than damping it.

Following that process, I learned about Revel speakers, which are designed with these principles in mind. They are also tested with real listeners using double-blind testing. I found a pair of preowned Revel Concerta F12's for in the upper hundreds--as cheap as any competing DIY build and solidly backed up by published testing.

Take a look at the speaker review search facility on this site. You can specify passive speakers in that search.

Rick "who has considered DIY speaker builds, but already has too many projects in the queue" Denney

 

[preload]

If you’re willing to go active, everyone seems to love the Linkwitz kits

 

[AudioSQ]

I chose the 2TD over 1TD because I watched Tim the Tool Man Taylor as a kid? More power! They were 3db more efficient and 6 ohms instead of 8 so they could see more power from some amps. They get plenty loud for me. I imagine the extra woofer increases the bass, but I have a null in my room that I have to make up for with subs anyways.

I did look at the BMR, but I wanted something more sensitive, and that had a center channel option. I also considered Anthologies (need more room to breath than I had), Adelphos, ER18, Nephila, 1099s, HTM12s, Solstice, Helix Dome MTM, GR Research.. probably some others I'm forgetting. All are top notch designs that should sound great. It came down to sensitivity, having a center channel option, easy flat packs, and actually being in stock. Then I went off reviews I could find. I figured I would enjoy the sound of any, but didn't find anything less than glowing about the Critons.

It's tough when you can't listen. I wonder what I would have picked if I got to try them all out in the same room. I have no regrets though.

I'll also say I'm not an audiophile. I don't have any audiophile friends, I haven't gone to fancy audio showrooms and listened to expensive gear or been to any audio get togethers. I got into audio by listening to nice car stereos about 25 years ago, but inside actual homes the only speakers I've ever really heard are ones that I've owned. I've built a few kits and played around with REW a little but my experiences are pretty limited. All that to say.. my opinion shouldn't hold much weight.

 

[Wolf]

How critical are the upgrades that you made to the flatpack you linked? The build thread is way impressive and probably a lot more than I could tackle at this point.

The central bracing that also backs the ports are not really required. What this does is tie in the bracing to all 6 panels and the port for less cabinet resonance. These cabinets are very well made, and low noise to start with.

The main difference in the flat-pack is the 6" offset in the baffle that I applied by an added board at the bottom front of the speaker to shift the drivers upward. This aligns the drivers closer to where the listener will be. If you sit really low (or even on the floor), then leaving the baffle as stock in the kit will be okay. If you are averaging an ear-height of 35-40" you can make/use a short stand of 6" height to set the cabinets higher if you don't feel like altering the flat pack.

 

[puppet]

That's a nice looking kit Wolf.

 

[Chazz6]

Not being into DIY, I get excellent detail and neutrality (perhaps a tad bright) from a Focal Aria 906 pair. Focal develops its own materials for its midrange drivers - and it may sell drivers separately.

 

[Wolf]

Thanks, @puppet ! It took about 4-5 cans or shades of paint to find the right one to pop that kevlar too! Not bragging, but 1st place over all out of some 40 entries at MWAF 2015 says something about them too!

If I didn't like my Cecropia Supreme project more, I'd have kept them myself. I traded the Nephila project for an Anthem AVM30.

 

[bryanl9581]

Not being into DIY, I get excellent detail and neutrality (perhaps a tad bright) from a Focal Aria 906 pair. Focal develops its own materials for its midrange drivers - and it may sell drivers separately.

I am currently comparing the same speaker and the KEF R3. I do like the Aria a bit more although the R3 sounds good too. I still have more listening to do but I may go with the Focal.

 

[puppet]

@Wolf
I've designed and built many Architectural millwork pieces over a 40+yr career. Your choices here .. color, element placement, added up to a first class design.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Hi everyone, long-time lurker, first-time poster here.

I've started getting my feet wet in DIY and am looking to take on my next project.
I built an active C-Note based pair of speakers in gloss-white for the living room and an RPi + Tone DAC streamer using Plexamp and Plex to manage the library.
My main system (currently) is a '75 Luxman L100u fully refurbished driving Dynaudio Contour 1.3 mkII speakers.

I just sold a pair of Klipsch KG4's with upgraded tweeters (Crites Ti) and a refurbished/rebuilt crossover (that I did).

I saw a handful of great reviews around the new Dynaudio Heritage speakers and began lusting after them, but the price was simply a deal killer. This led me down the path of looking at DIY builds for an upgraded speaker to replace my current Dyns with. I play mainly classic rock and electric blues with a sprinkling of Bluegrass and bebop when the occasion (or the bourbon and hour) calls for it. Mid-sized man cave where I generally am just entertaining myself.

I am not un-handy, but definitely not an artist and do not have the equipment for a full-on build, so I've been gravitating towards flatpacks and pre-engineered kits. I was looking pretty closely at the GR-research stuff (sans cable and power cords) and love the CNC flatpacks that they are offering for the X-LS and X-static models.

I am looking for great clarity and a neutral speaker (the Luxman adds just the right amount of warmth for me, and I'm also eventually planning to build the amp and preamp tube kits offered by Elekit). I'm open to bookshelf or floorstanders and am intrigued by horns and open baffle designs, but this build needs to be something manageable in both its scope, cost and footprint.

I'd love to hear some thoughts on how the GR-R's would compare against the Dyns and if there are other full kits that I should look at. Ideally I'm budgeting somwhere in the neighborhood of $1K to $1.5K but I always accomodate for scope-creep!

Thanks in advance - I love the great info on this forum and am closely following a number of the other project threads as well!

Peter

I will stick with easy and passive as you reuested.

The $300 a PAIR, HIVI kit is complete and did Extremely well here with a slightly modified crossover that is well documented. This has been a fan favorite for a long time in the DIY forums.
With the squared edges it will be easy to veneer for a novice. EASY to build
https://www.amazon.com/HiVi-Bookshelf-Speakers-Near-Field-Speaker/dp/B0721ZQXDG
(5 left in stock now but it seems to go in and out of stock every couple weeks, so I bet more are coming)

A potential high end design done by SB Acoustics themselves using their Satori Drivers can not be ignored.
Includes finished cabinets, you assemble. EASY.
Satori Ara $1395 a PAIR with the dimple soft dome, (add the beryllium tweeter for $500 but why?)
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ra-2-way-speaker-kit-pair-with-cabinets-2694/

The PE Samba kit has a flat pack, you just need to buy a few extra things (like binding posts)
Dayton RS drivers are excellent, excellent drivers comparing well to much more expensive gear. I have never seen this unit measured however.
$164 each ($328 a PAIR)
https://www.parts-express.com/Samba-MT-Bookshelf-Speaker-Kit-with-Knock-Down-Cabinet-300-7121
I have similar Dayton RS drivers in one of my DIY actives and in my case they are excellent.

CSS is all over you tube now with two of the bigger audio bloggers promoting it.
The GR research Kit is back again on the Youtube circuit again.
I see no reason not to try these kits.

The CSS kit is using a very solid/famous rebranded Wavecore woofer. The main thing about that woofer as I understand it, is it models well down into the low 30hz's. You are paying for that so little benefit if using a sub/subs. Keep in mind it is a 6-7" driver and is not a replacement for a subwoofer - so at high volumes that woofer will be working very hard on low bass and reaching high excursion levels(potential for HD and IMD distortions).
Based on the testing I have seen over at voice coil I think that that tweeter is over priced and nothing I would buy on it own, however the CSS designers have likely worked into the speaker very well. You are paying for that however.

GR Research makes a totally decent kit. No doubt about it. He also sells tube connectors and is often in arguments in the comments section on various forums that paint him as arrogant and childish when challenged. Not totally my cup of tea. He makes his money the old fashioned way and I understand that means he sticks to his guns when his cash flow is involved. That may not bother you. I don't trust him, though at least he puts him self out there on front line. I bet any number of other folks in the business are not completely trustworthy either but they hide away. In any case this to explain why some while shy you from his wares.
The kit has a budget tweeter and a seemingly decent woofer pair with a fair crossover and the results measured fairly well here.

I've never heard the GR-kit nor have I heard the Parts Express Samba kit, however the PE kit has a flat pack, likely better drivers and a as of yet un tested crossover.
I'd personally buy the PE kit over the GR kit. Then I'd buy the HIVI 3.1a over the PE kit. The CSS kit seems pricey with the flat pack and knowing a big chunk of the value is in the bass reach. (I use subs for bass), so maybe I would just jump into the Satori Ara and skip the CSS. I'd be very curious what the CSS offers over the HIVI kit, I am betting not much.

Someone already mentioned the BMR kit but that one is affordable finished, you save very little buying flat packs and the kit (you would have fun I'd think). It is extremely well regarded.

Also you could contact Bamberg Audio, maker of higher end speakers. He has un advertised DIY kits, including some 2-ways.
http://www.bambergaudio.com/

Not sure how much you have explored DIY and these links are more for fun (not to add confusion) as the kits do not include flat packs and some are very complex. As you likely know already some kits can be made in a weekend and some will takes weeks or longer.
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm

https://meniscusaudio.com/product-category/speaker-kits/

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/the-helios-loudspeaker-kit/
this is a big 2-way with PR using very nice drivers $1800 pair without cabinets. You could source some.

In any case most DIY kits in the 1k-1.5k budget class do not have flat packs as it is "assumed" that more seasoned builders are attracted to these and have tools/skills.
Really without building you own boxes there are much more limited options. That doesn't mean you would not get a sweet kit with a flatpack. Just less options.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Will second @ROOSKIE last post but add Bagby’s Solstice to the mix. If you want something that really rocks, need to get bigger and more volume. It is at Parts Express https://www.parts-express.com/Solstice-MLTL-Reference-Tower-Speaker-Kit-300-708

For a lot of kits, the pandemic has hurt supply. Would also suggest you consider Selah Audio. He has some great values and has a cabinet maker that help supply nicer woodworking than most flat-packs.

Happy hunting!

 

[Wolf]

Agreed, Rick at Selah knows his stuff. Can't go wrong there.

 

[obkook]

Thanks for the awesome contributions to an already valuable thread!
I'm pretty excited to do a build and not in a rush, so I'm enjoying all the links and research and advice.

 

[pokerbarlo]

I will stick with easy and passive as you reuested.

The $300 a PAIR, HIVI kit is complete and did Extremely well here with a slightly modified crossover that is well documented. This has been a fan favorite for a long time in the DIY forums.
With the squared edges it will be easy to veneer for a novice. EASY to build
https://www.amazon.com/HiVi-Bookshelf-Speakers-Near-Field-Speaker/dp/B0721ZQXDG
(5 left in stock now but it seems to go in and out of stock every couple weeks, so I bet more are coming)

A potential high end design done by SB Acoustics themselves using their Satori Drivers can not be ignored.
Includes finished cabinets, you assemble. EASY.
Satori Ara $1395 a PAIR with the dimple soft dome, (add the beryllium tweeter for $500 but why?)
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ra-2-way-speaker-kit-pair-with-cabinets-2694/
View attachment 126304

The PE Samba kit has a flat pack, you just need to buy a few extra things (like binding posts)
Dayton RS drivers are excellent, excellent drivers comparing well to much more expensive gear. I have never seen this unit measured however.
$164 each ($328 a PAIR)
https://www.parts-express.com/Samba-MT-Bookshelf-Speaker-Kit-with-Knock-Down-Cabinet-300-7121
I have similar Dayton RS drivers in one of my DIY actives and in my case they are excellent.

CSS is all over you tube now with two of the bigger audio bloggers promoting it.
The GR research Kit is back again on the Youtube circuit again.
I see no reason not to try these kits.

The CSS kit is using a very solid/famous rebranded Wavecore woofer. The main thing about that woofer as I understand it, is it models well down into the low 30hz's. You are paying for that so little benefit if using a sub/subs. Keep in mind it is a 6-7" driver and is not a replacement for a subwoofer - so at high volumes that woofer will be working very hard on low bass and reaching high excursion levels(potential for HD and IMD distortions).
Based on the testing I have seen over at voice coil I think that that tweeter is over priced and nothing I would buy on it own, however the CSS designers have likely worked into the speaker very well. You are paying for that however.

GR Research makes a totally decent kit. No doubt about it. He also sells tube connectors and is often in arguments in the comments section on various forums that paint him as arrogant and childish when challenged. Not totally my cup of tea. He makes his money the old fashioned way and I understand that means he sticks to his guns when his cash flow is involved. That may not bother you. I don't trust him, though at least he puts him self out there on front line. I bet any number of other folks in the business are not completely trustworthy either but they hide away. In any case this to explain why some while shy you from his wares.
The kit has a budget tweeter and a seemingly decent woofer pair with a fair crossover and the results measured fairly well here.

I've never heard the GR-kit nor have I heard the Parts Express Samba kit, however the PE kit has a flat pack, likely better drivers and a as of yet un tested crossover.
I'd personally buy the PE kit over the GR kit. Then I'd buy the HIVI 3.1a over the PE kit. The CSS kit seems pricey with the flat pack and knowing a big chunk of the value is in the bass reach. (I use subs for bass), so maybe I would just jump into the Satori Ara and skip the CSS. I'd be very curious what the CSS offers over the HIVI kit, I am betting not much.

Someone already mentioned the BMR kit but that one is affordable finished, you save very little buying flat packs and the kit (you would have fun I'd think). It is extremely well regarded.

Also you could contact Bamberg Audio, maker of higher end speakers. He has un advertised DIY kits, including some 2-ways.
http://www.bambergaudio.com/

Not sure how much you have explored DIY and these links are more for fun (not to add confusion) as the kits do not include flat packs and some are very complex. As you likely know already some kits can be made in a weekend and some will takes weeks or longer.
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm

https://meniscusaudio.com/product-category/speaker-kits/

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/the-helios-loudspeaker-kit/
this is a big 2-way with PR using very nice drivers $1800 pair without cabinets. You could source some.
View attachment 126303

In any case most DIY kits in the 1k-1.5k budget class do not have flat packs as it is "assumed" that more seasoned builders are attracted to these and have tools/skills.
Really without building you own boxes there are much more limited options. That doesn't mean you would not get a sweet kit with a flatpack. Just less options.

I am actually in the same predicament waiting for maybe a CSS Criton 2TDX test by anyone on here and how it would compare to the HIVI 3.1a which had a pretty high score for 300usd. Are there any frequency curves and objective reviews of the Satori available?

 

[Rgomes]

My 2 cents.
Stick with your Dynaudios or upgrade inside the Dynaudio Range.

 

[D!sco]

The spec of the new Dynaudio bookshelves seems similar to the set of Speedsters I built. Paul Carmody really knows what he's doing. All of his designs are worth looking at.
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/bookshelf-speakers/speedster
I also have the HiVi 3.1's, and highly recommend them. Not warm sounding, but they're certainly the easiest to put together and have no noticeable distortion whatsoever at any volume. You can put a set together in 3-4 days if you have your shit together and stick to a plan. They're currently my TV's forward speakers with a sub crossed @60hz.

I wish I could recommend DIY Sound Group, but they're reorganizing and constantly out of stock since the start of the pandemic. I've emailed the owner a number of times about parts availability and it never seems to get sorted. Really a shame, since the kits are really good value and easy to assemble.

If you ask super nice and fork over a little extra cash, the guys over at Meniscus Audio will help you put a box together. Their customer service is top notch advice over the phone. I had a myriad of dumb questions building my speedsters and they cleared up everything. I'd be happy to buy from them again. That said, I'm pretty sure any of the Meniscus kits will blow us away, including the Philharmonic BMR. Proven design, multiple iterations, spectacular measurements. If I had a grand or two to blow on music, it would probably be on the BMR series.

 

[Wolf]

Yes, the Meniscus guys are the best to deal with. Plus- they are the only place that sells some of the kits by us DIY designers.

 

[GnospmhoT]

I currently have the GR-Research Encore XL-S running with a pair of MartinKings Goldwood H Frame subs , Swan M1 with GOOD/Expensive crossover components, The Copper Project, and five Mark Audio full range drivers (2 in bass reflex and three in Pencil MLTL cabinets. Plus other speakers that I have built over the years and given to friends and family. Before all this I was running the Fried C full range and O TL subs, my first really good speakers.

In my lifetime I've spent more time auditioning speakers that anyone I've met personally (maybe I don't get out much) and sold hi fi and managed three hi fi shops decades ago. The XL-S with H Frame subs is the best I've heard in it's price range, but of course (like most everyone else) there is more that I have not heard than what I have heard. So I keep looking, researching, and from time to time buy and build and hear for myself just how good some speaker may or may not sound. I'm not listening for a really good stereo system, I'm listneing for a really good performance. Creating that sence of intimacy with the music, is what I consider the entry into the world of the audiophile. And I am trying to find out how to get there for the least amount of money.

With the XL-S, I like what I hear, and if I had to live with that for the rest of my life, I could. But I am already contemplating the next two or three speakers that I would like to try / build. I am currently considering the GR Research X-static and nx-otica and the Mark Audio Alpair 12P in a Pencil MLTL cabinet. If anyone has some good recommendations that might be a good step up from the XL-S I'd like to hear from you.