High-end passive bookshelf speakers vs mid-range active studio monitors

[stevenswall]

On the other hand, the D&D can't magically become coaxial.

I'd pay dearly for a D&D with a coaxial midrange/tweeter. A couple years ago I asked them for a vertical dispersion graph, which they wouldn't provide.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Cheaper Sopra n°1 measure very well, on the other hand:

New measurements from James Larson at Audioholics.

 

[richard12511]

View attachment 135279
New measurements from James Larson at Audioholics.
View attachment 135280View attachment 135281View attachment 135282View attachment 135283

That looks great. Super wide and uniform dispersion. LW is super flat. Slight on axis upwards tilt above 10kHz well balanced by the increasing directivity. Really impressive.

 

[dfuller]

Wow, that's remarkably good for what amounts to no waveguide.

 

[stevenswall]

Wow, that's remarkably good for what amounts to no waveguide.

I think either a waveguide or a rounded cabinet with minimal diffraction work well. Genelec is great and they use waveguides. The Devialet Phantom is also great and has the opposite of a waveguide as the front is like a ball. The issue is when neither is there: no waveguide, no advanced cabinet, drivers slapped on boxes.

 

[jonfitch]

The problem with actives is they are going the direction of walled garden proprietary systems and connections, which I think is ultimately a dead end unless you are a tech giant with a huge customer base. In reality passive is here to stay because it means more versatility and consumer freedom. And with room correction systems like Dirac Live I don't see anything particularly interesting about active speakers as it takes away most of their advantages.

 

[dfuller]

The problem with actives is they are going the direction of walled garden proprietary systems and connections, which I think is ultimately a dead end unless you are a tech giant with a huge customer base. In reality passive is here to stay because it means more versatility and consumer freedom. And with room correction systems like Dirac Live I don't see anything particularly interesting about active speakers as it takes away most of their advantages.

Except they aren't, not really. Studio focused equipment holds to standards for ease of interoperability, and that means using very old and long-tested digital protocols (AES3 is 35 years old) or straight up analog XLR inputs.

 

[oozlum]

There's just no comparison between companies that are completely performance oriented and those who are shackled (or protected) by a mostly design oriented customer base.

Would it be correct to state that there is a cost of diminishing returns, no price-performance correlation and more luxurious materials used at higher end of the spectrum? (Some materials can add to stiffness and other wanted design workflows but it’s more often aesthetic-oriented).

 

[q3cpma]

Would it be correct to state that there is a cost of diminishing returns, no price-performance correlation and more luxurious materials used at higher end of the spectrum? (Some materials can add to stiffness and other wanted design workflows but it’s more often aesthetic-oriented).

These are all true, but it doesn't change the fact that the way forward is fully integrated DSP designs, which are mostly reviled by old school audiophiles. Of course, you can have both the toys and the tech if you have enough time and knowledge to implement your own DSP crossover and LF directivity control extending the constant directivity of your speaker, but I doubt you'll reach an attention to detail worthy of the top brands.

 

[abdo123]

The only reason to get high-end passive speakers in 2021 is to play LOUD, and by LOUD i mean peaks reaching 110 dB loud (above 100 Hz) for Home Cinema purposes.

There are literally no other reason. Accuracy, convenience and features are all on the side of active speakers.

I would buy something like the Dutch & Dutch 8C for music listening over something from Perlisten or Revel, While it won't play remotely close as loud it will have sublime FR and lower room to room variation due to its cardoid radiation pattern.

 

[oozlum]

These are all true, but it doesn't change the fact that the way forward is fully integrated DSP designs, which are mostly reviled by old school audiophiles. Of course, you can have both the toys and the tech if you have enough time and knowledge to implement your own DSP crossover and LF directivity control extending the constant directivity of your speaker, but I doubt you'll reach an attention to detail worthy of the top brands.

What an elegant way to further describe passive and active/powered designs!

 

[phoenixdogfan]

$17,000 for a pair of bookshelf speakers? I don't care how good they sound. For that kind of money they'd better make me coffee, take out the trash, and make my car get 50mpg.

Better be really good in bed too.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

The only reason to get high-end passive speakers in 2021 is to play LOUD, and by LOUD i mean peaks reaching 110 dB loud (above 100 Hz) for Home Cinema purposes.

There are literally no other reason. Accuracy, convenience and features are all on the side of active speakers.

I would buy something like the Dutch & Dutch 8C for music listening over something from Perlisten or Revel, While it won't play remotely close as loud it will have sublime FR and lower room to room variation due to its cardoid radiation pattern.

im pretty sure my passive speakers + my pc have plenty of features xD

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I was wondering how would mid priced active studio monitors like Genelec 8050B/8350A, or Neumann KH310, compete with high end, high priced passive speakers like the Focal Diablo Utopia and Dynaudio Heritage Special etc?
Basically they're both 2-way speakers(except the KH310) that should perform very well.
How and why would these Focals be better than the studio monitors i mentioned? I mean they cost much more so they should sound definitely better.
View attachment 127548

This is what Soundstage HIFi said in review of the LS 50 Metas in comparison to the Focal Diablo Utopias Colour Evo Bookshelf Loudspeakers costing $8495 each;

'Focal’s Diablo Utopia is bigger, heavier, and far more expensive than the LS50 Meta, and does some things better: It outputs slightly deeper, punchier bass, it can play louder without strain, and its midrange is a touch meatier. But its highs are a bit hotter, its soundstaging is no better, and its imaging isn’t as precise. I could see someone with the money who likes what the Focals offer loving them -- particularly their bass and output capabilities. On the other hand, what the LS50 Meta accomplishes for less than one-tenth the price highlights why the original LS50 was such a success -- the little KEFs can’t necessarily always win in the big league, but they can play in it. "

A pair of Metas and a couple of SVS SB3000s will set you back $3500, and will almost certainly play as loud and undoubtedly deeper.

 

[richard12511]

The problem with actives is they are going the direction of walled garden proprietary systems and connections, which I think is ultimately a dead end unless you are a tech giant with a huge customer base. In reality passive is here to stay because it means more versatility and consumer freedom. And with room correction systems like Dirac Live I don't see anything particularly interesting about active speakers as it takes away most of their advantages.

I kinda have the opposite view. I think passives from companies like Revel/KEF have probably just about reached the limits of what is possible in a passive design without some sort of major advance. I see actives as the only real way to get better atm. Advantages like DSP crossovers, sample specific anechoic based DSP, and beam shaping(ex: Beolab90) are all things that Dirac can't help with.

I'm really hoping the Salon3 is a fully active design with optimized crossovers, beam shaping, and dsp. Crossing my fingers, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I kinda have the opposite view. I think passives from companies like Revel/KEF have probably just about reached the limits of what is possible in a passive design without some sort of major advance. I see actives as the only real way to get better atm. Advantages like DSP crossovers, sample specific anechoic based DSP, and beam shaping(ex: Beolab90) are all things that Dirac can't help with.

I'm really hoping the Salon3 is a fully active design with optimized crossovers, beam shaping, and dsp. Crossing my fingers, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

If it has all those goodies, here's hoping they trickle down tout suite.

 

[Ron Texas]

I think really expensive passive stand mounts are not a good deal. At higher prices there is more value in floor standing speakers.