High End Munich 2025 - May 15-18

[anphex]

Sorry but this is a delusional take. Yes, there are sadly a lot of bad sounding expensive loudspeakers out there, but there are also some very good high end speakers which will sound overall much better than KEF Reference Meta speakers and of cause will also measure overall better.

Uhh spicy take from yourself. Please provide examples with measurement links.

Rules:
- must be passive
- must have a clear reason for "sounding better"
- can't be KEF Blade
- just more low end extension doesn't count since were talking pairing with sub here
- radiation pattern must be stable vertically and horizontally

I apply a loudness correction to my KEFs, don't think I like "flat" linearity at all. The reason Iove flat speakers is that they allow you to apply reliable EQ and shelfs.


As for the fair, I didnt feel like bringing the heavy and bulky Nikon via train. But I will make somenraw pics from my Zenfone and postpro them.

 

[test1223]

Uhh spicy take from yourself. Please provide examples with measurement links.

Rules:
- must be passive
- must have a clear reason for "sounding better"
- can't be KEF Blade
- just more low end extension doesn't count since were talking pairing with sub here

I apply a loudness correction to my KEFs, don't think I like "flat" linearity at all. The reason Iove flat speakers is that they allow you to apply reliable EQ and shelfs.


As for the fair, I didnt feel like bringing the heavy and bulky Nikon via train. But I will make some raw pics from my Zenfone and postpro them.

You think you will catch reality with a limited model of the reality and optimize everything according to your wrong interpretation of that model.

For example every bookshelf speaker creates a reflection with the floor. This provides a peak and a dip in the frequency of about 250Hz. Therefore every bookshelf speakers, no matter how good or expansive, won't sound right in this frequency region with a higher listening distance. This is one small example of hundreds which demonstrates the complex interaction of loudspeaker and rooms.

There are only a few people on earth who can draw correct conclusions from most standard measurements and know exactly the limitations from each type of measurement. Nevertheless a lot of people here are very convinced they can read amplitude frequency responses or spinoramas 100% correctly. Nevertheless almost no one can even estimate the predicted preferences score correctly by looking at the spinorama. While this predicted preferences score is nowadays more and more useless since the good speakers score predicted preferences which are too close together to utilize these for finding the best speaker, in terms of real listener preference. Not to mention hundreds of other limitations of that model.

In short take your KEF Reference to any hifi dealer and listen for yourself. You will fast realize that there are a lot of speakers which are way better than your beloved loudspeaker. Do it in a blind test if you are very skeptical but don't skip reality for a limited model.

 

[Jeromeof]

So I thought I would share some pictures of my experience of Munich so far.

I did spend lots of time so far in the headphone area and the more 'pragmatic' / sensible areas of the show, but I guess this post should be about proper high end, so I think first I would share the most 'sensible' (i.e. no nonsense) high end speaker (given the measurements) and just have a dedicated post about Genelec.

So, I was fortunate enough to arrive at a less busy time so I could actually ask for some music I am familiar with (Radiohead) and even chat with their team about the room setup ( apparently not much was required ).

So here are some photos of the Genelec 8381:

I hopefully persuaded them to try and send one to @amirm - and of all the companies I talked to they were the only ones on the 'crazy high end' floor ( other than maybe Elac ) that knew what ASR was about.

and some of the other Genelec Speakers in the room:

 

[Jeromeof]

But here is a separate post with some of the other speakers, so I think a post was shared earlier with these speakers, but since, they were generous enough to share a beer while I listened to their speakers, I though I would use it for scale in this photo, these are massive speakers.

I believe these are €380,000 for a pair.

But this very large room also have these speakers setup and I got to say subjectively ( it might be the beer talking) these sound pretty good - the room was huge so probably less reflections to worry about but they looked great and unique (if you have a massive room to put them in) and 4 woofers provided lots of bass that didn't sound boomy:

I walked out of some of the other "demo rooms" earlier as it was obviously the setup - if not the speakers themselves were terrible but this setup was pretty interesting.

 

[Jeromeof]

And here are a bunch more photos of some of the high end speaker room setups - everything looks impressive but the "selected" audiophile tracks made it less interesting than say the Genelec room ( and lots of these setups just sounded terrible to me - too loud and boomy with no midrange )

And some of the components in these rooms:

 

[Jeromeof]

And finally maybe some of the more interesting things on the other floor at more 'normal' price levels:

Loved the look of this new Audio Technica:

These speakers look very nice (at a reasonable price) - but obviously not measured yet:

These made me laugh:

Both these looked like good bargains - again I didn't get to listen (but even if I did probably would not mean anything):

There was a company just selling expensive grounding systems ( I laughed when they told me the price they didn't):

 

[Arindal]

I don’t think I have seen for example one pair of loudspeakers under £10k

No brands like Radiant, Canton, Kanto, Argon, Amphion, Klipsch, Genelec, JBL, Neat, Heco and others at the show this year?

don't think I like "flat" linearity at all.

That would be very unusual, as in everyday situations our ears are trained to perceive linear tonality as ´the real thing´.

 

[TimF]

A couple absolute essentials of the modern age are heat shrink tubing and lycra/spandex.

 

[Jean.Francois]

Hello
Two new vidéos about
Davis Acoustics The Wall
TIDAL AUDIO the the Bugatti loudspeakers

 

[MattHooper]

Thanks for the show reports so far and the photos!

I also normally like to look at video reports of these shows and the 4K walkarounds. When I project those on my big screen in the Home Theatre and surroundsound, there could be an almost uncanny sensation of visiting those rooms, because the image is so big clear and dimensional. It’s like entering a room, and you can hear the acoustics and the character of the sound changes as you moved to different rooms, which gives you that realistic impression. (even if ultimately, of course, you can’t accurately judge the sound of any speaker this way, it’s a fun experience).

I also the direction high-end has gone. Yes I know people have been complaining about prices and high-end audio for as long as I have been in the hobby. But I think it’s also obvious that it’s taken on a new direction, where many companies seem they have a better chance of appealing to some realm of audiophile oligarchs - creating gear at extraordinary price points in low numbers seems to be the economic bet.
And a degree it’s affecting all the other prices, bringing them up.

When I see the price list for these rooms sometimes my eyes roll a 360 in my head.
It just seems so ridiculous.

On the other hand, yeah I really do want to hear many of these crazy systems just to see what they’ve got.

My ideal show is one in which there’s a nice representation of crazy out of reach gear, and speakers of a scale that I could never use in my own room, but I would love to hear. But also a significant represent more affordable (to me anyway) gear that is being played.

 

[Bjorn]

What's the impression of the Genelec 8381A?

 

[Keith_W]

There was a company just selling expensive grounding systems ( I laughed when they told me the price they didn't):
View attachment 451467

We are all agreed that that "Telos Grounding Monster" is a complete waste of time and money, but damn ... look at that case! They took a huge slab of metal and machined a case out of it. Look how thick the metal is. If I was made of unlimited amounts of money, I would LOVE to have a computer case machined out of solid metal like that. Not because it's functional, but because it's beautiful.

 

[BeeKay]

We are all agreed that that "Telos Grounding Monster" is a complete waste of time and money, but damn ... look at that case! They took a huge slab of metal and machined a case out of it. Look how thick the metal is. If I was made of unlimited amounts of money, I would LOVE to have a computer case machined out of solid metal like that. Not because it's functional, but because it's beautiful.

Hi-Bling instead of Hi-Fi? Where is this oligarch’s sh** show going? The end goal is to dip these milled a from solid metal block casings in premium glue, then place them in a container with Svarowsky diamonds. Sound, for sure, will be praised as ‘crystal clear’! Buy a pair and you get one $ 25.000 power cord with a 10% discount.

 

[anphex]

You think you will catch reality with a limited model of the reality and optimize everything according to your wrong interpretation of that model.

For example every bookshelf speaker creates a reflection with the floor. This provides a peak and a dip in the frequency of about 250Hz. Therefore every bookshelf speakers, no matter how good or expansive, won't sound right in this frequency region with a higher listening distance. This is one small example of hundreds which demonstrates the complex interaction of loudspeaker and rooms.

There are only a few people on earth who can draw correct conclusions from most standard measurements and know exactly the limitations from each type of measurement. Nevertheless a lot of people here are very convinced they can read amplitude frequency responses or spinoramas 100% correctly. Nevertheless almost no one can even estimate the predicted preferences score correctly by looking at the spinorama. While this predicted preferences score is nowadays more and more useless since the good speakers score predicted preferences which are too close together to utilize these for finding the best speaker, in terms of real listener preference. Not to mention hundreds of other limitations of that model.

In short take your KEF Reference to any hifi dealer and listen for yourself. You will fast realize that there are a lot of speakers which are way better than your beloved loudspeaker. Do it in a blind test if you are very skeptical but don't skip reality for a limited model.

Friend, but Amir already measures that. Its a very important factor, yes, but it's already long been quantized.

Floor Bounce
Wall Bounce
Ceiling Bounce
Early Reflections
In Room Response

This will be my last post commenting this.

---

Gonna make my way to the fair soon via train. I hope it's not too crowded.

 

[anphex]

So I thought I would share some pictures of my experience of Munich so far.

I did spend lots of time so far in the headphone area and the more 'pragmatic' / sensible areas of the show, but I guess this post should be about proper high end, so I think first I would share the most 'sensible' (i.e. no nonsense) high end speaker (given the measurements) and just have a dedicated post about Genelec.

So, I was fortunate enough to arrive at a less busy time so I could actually ask for some music I am familiar with (Radiohead) and even chat with their team about the room setup ( apparently not much was required ).

So here are some photos of the Genelec 8381:

View attachment 451411

View attachment 451412

I hopefully persuaded them to try and send one to @amirm - and of all the companies I talked to they were the only ones on the 'crazy high end' floor ( other than maybe Elac ) that knew what ASR was about.

View attachment 451413
and some of the other Genelec Speakers in the room:

View attachment 451416
View attachment 451417

Remember that Amir has to ship them back too. With current shipping troubles and tariffs, this would be no small project.

 

[iGude]

What's the impression of the Genelec 8381A?

My first reaction was just WOW, then „yeah, this is how it is supposed to sound“, then „how do I get the money for that“. Clean, dynamic, just WOW. Did I mention that it sounded WOW? Anyway..

The presenter asked if we want to hear the smaller speakers, too. I told him that I want to hear the big ones and pay for the small ones. He said he could do something about it but I guess that is not considered a binding offer in a legal sense.

 

[Sokel]

There's a slight slip to younger ages this year as it seems, with an interest for bigger gear.
Probably people that did some decent money by apps and stuff, language can be a traitor

Other than that, company reps looking for ways for the usual November - December buys, the usual crazy crowd gathered at the usual big system rooms, etc.
More women too!

If someone's goal is fun that's the place. If it's about choosing speakers, it's not.
Some rooms were lightly treated, most not so much.
The only meaningful metric there is SPL vs room for those interested.

Sadly, lots of music which contain someone crying accompanying by with a small violin who favorite smaller gear along with some horrific mains-sub integrations.
Not the norm though, this show is usually about stuff bigger than life even if not on the sane, useful, measurable side.

Music is music though, it can iron everything remaining beautiful, so...

 

[fredoamigo]

More women too!

world really doing that badly?

 

[Thighsofsteel]

I have only seen Kii ( so far) trying to do anything remotely interesting and that involves selling $40-50 per month ‘curated immersive streaming.’

Keith

Is this streaming from Pure audio ??

Pure Audio Streaming

pureaudiostreaming.com

 

[Sokel]

world really doing that badly?

I guess foolishness is global.
And more so the fun foolishness, the best kind of it.