High End Munich 2025 - May 15-18

[Pearljam5000]

No, I haven't looked up Kroma's measurements... and honestly, I don't need to, although I presume they'll be fine. They won't be nearly perfect like Generec. They've already analyzed some of their models here, and they measure extraordinarily well. But this is precisely what I'm trying to say:

Many of the speakers that "measure perfectly" in an anechoic chamber or in tests end up sounding sterile and lifeless in reality, or at least for me. Perhaps I have defective hearing, along with my family's. That's where the difference between designing for the human ear or for a microphone comes in.

Genelecs are ultra analytical
It's not for everybody

 

[END WAY]

Genelecs are ultra analytical
It's not for everybody

Oh right... now it turns out that if you don't like how they sound, it's because "they're not for everyone."

But I'll be more careful, and instead of saying they sound flat and lifeless, I'll say it's us who aren't ready.

 

[Purité Audio]

Perhaps you are just used to coloured speakers, many of the heavily marketed designs do measure pretty poorly.
Keith

 

[Pearljam5000]

Oh right... now it turns out that if you don't like how they sound, it's because "they're not for everyone."

But I'll be more careful, and instead of saying they sound flat and lifeless, I'll say it's us who aren't ready.

What I'm saying is that I've heard many speakers and they sound different to most
And their sound can be hard to swallow for some people that are used to colored sound like @Purité Audio said
No need to get defensive
You can dislike the sound all you want it's not that I have shares in the company or something lol

 

[END WAY]

Perhaps you are just used to coloured speakers, many of the heavily marketed designs do measure pretty poorly.
Keith

No, I'm not used to speakers with "colors." I'm used to being moved by music, not being passed over like a forensic analysis.

There's an absurd obsession with measuring things that don't translate into emotion. And the problem is that some people confuse neutrality with lifelessness.

If for you, sounding flat and soulless is synonymous with "high fidelity," then yes, we're in different worlds.

I prefer something that gives me goosebumps, not something that delivers a technical report in real time.

 

[Pearljam5000]

No, I'm not used to speakers with "colors." I'm used to being moved by music, not being passed over like a forensic analysis.

There's an absurd obsession with measuring things that don't translate into emotion. And the problem is that some people confuse neutrality with lifelessness.

If for you, sounding flat and soulless is synonymous with "high fidelity," then yes, we're in different worlds.

I prefer something that gives me goosebumps, not something that delivers a technical report in real time.

It sounds like that studio monitors are not for you
Congrats on liking the audiophile Kroma
What other home speakers did you like at the show?

 

[Purité Audio]

No, I'm not used to speakers with "colors." I'm used to being moved by music, not being passed over like a forensic analysis.

There's an absurd obsession with measuring things that don't translate into emotion. And the problem is that some people confuse neutrality with lifelessness.

If for you, sounding flat and soulless is synonymous with "high fidelity," then yes, we're in different worlds.

I prefer something that gives me goosebumps, not something that delivers a technical report in real time.

If you prefer goosebumps then leave the windows open, I will settle for neutrality.
Keith

 

[END WAY]

It sounds like that studio monitors are not for you
Congrats on liking the audiophile Kroma
What other home speakers did you like at the show?

"Thanks. I really appreciate any design that achieves high fidelity, whether for the studio or home. But some speakers and monitors are more designed for technical analysis than for enjoying music as an emotional experience. Kroma surprised me because it achieves a balance between detail and musicality without audible distortion, especially in the living room with solid Orpheus amplification. I also found some proposals interesting, such as Magico, Marten, Auer Acoustic, although I still think there is room to go further in naturalness and realism."

 

[Purité Audio]

No , loudspeakers are transducers, they ‘should’ be neutral/transparent, personally I don’t want the speakers to be an instrument in their own right.
A neutral loudspeaker is a neutral loudspeaker however you choose to use it.
Keith

 

[Mort]

I'm guessing that most here listen to Genelec's with DSP and probably a curve.
Without that, they would indeed sound pretty lifeless.
As would many great speakers. That's what makes them great.
You appear to prefer the designer color your sound, which you call 'musical'.
We don't disagree, I simply prefer to maintain that control myself.

 

[END WAY]

No , loudspeakers are transducers, they ‘should’ be neutral/transparent, personally I don’t want the speakers to be an instrument in their own right.
A neutral loudspeaker is a neutral loudspeaker however you choose to use it.
Keith

Yes, a speaker should be as neutral as possible, but the reality is that there are key aspects that become relevant when we listen, for example, to how the phase between channels behaves, the level of microdynamic compression at low volumes. You don't see that in a target curve or in a harmonic distortion measurement.
The human ear is not a microphone, and there are things like the way transients are reproduced that make a big difference and aren't fully captured in the most common graphs.

It's not about coloring; it's about preserving what's in the recording as faithfully as possible, even in what isn't so easily measured.
Besides, if you tell me that a studio monitor cabinet is completely inert and doesn't color the sound, I honestly can't take that argument seriously anymore. No cabinet is completely inert, not even ultra-high-end ones like the M9. There are always resonances, vibrations, inherent modes of the material, and shapes that affect response, especially in the midrange. If you think a cheap MDF or molded plastic cabinet doesn't add color, then there's no longer any debate: you're talking theory, not reality.

Aside from the fact that you consider the Generec to be among the best-sounding speakers, what other speaker do you like that doesn't add color, according to you?

 

[Sal1950]

Genelecs are ultra analytical
It's not for everybody

True, kind of.
But I would not be afraid to recommend Genelec's or any other very accurate speaker on these grounds.
A set of "tone controls" in the path would allow modification to any curve desired while also offering the option to go "accurate" if and when desired.
A fugly voiced speaker is difficult if not impossible to correct for.

 

[END WAY]

If you prefer goosebumps then leave the windows open, I will settle for neutrality.
Keith

Well, now we know you don't get goosebumps... maybe because you listen like a golden mole, devoid of emotion and almost no response to sound. The funny thing is that some people confuse neutrality with insensitivity, and measurement with music. But don't worry, not everyone is born to feel; some just want to feel good looking at pretty graphics.

 

[MKR]

Well, now we know you don't get goosebumps... maybe because you listen like a golden mole, devoid of emotion and almost no response to sound. The funny thing is that some people confuse neutrality with insensitivity, and measurement with music. But don't worry, not everyone is born to feel; some just want to feel good looking at pretty graphics.

I suspect your time on ASR will end soon if you continue with such comments. Take it easy, no need for personal attacks.

 

[Sal1950]

The funny thing is that some people confuse neutrality with insensitivity, and measurement with music. But don't worry, not everyone is born to feel; some just want to feel good looking at pretty graphics.

Measurement reveals the ability or lack of, to "reproduce" music in the home.
If you wish to create your own preference, that's something else.

 

[Bjorn]

I hope you're not disappointed like I was with the Generec. I had high expectations since I'm very familiar with active systems, and although the Generec doesn't sound bad—in fact, better than many at the show—it was still clear to me that simply forcing the EQ with a DSP isn't enough to achieve the flat response that those who only measure data like.
For me, with zero dynamics, everything sounded lifeless, although everything was very correct.
My wife and daughter, with no brand bias, unanimously agreed.
My question is, do they really measure well, and should we therefore convince ourselves that this is the sound we like?
Before buying an 8381a, I would buy a Kroma a thousand times over, and I'd have some money left over. Sure, the Kroma doesn't measure as well as any Generec, but we don't hear it as if we were a measuring instrument.

There's a lot more to speaker design than a linear on-axis response and Spinorama. It also matter how you achieve an even response.

There's nothing wrong with you and your familys hearing the way I see it. Quite contrary, you have discovered something very important related to speaker design.
It could actually be that those systems you prefered are really better in important measurable areas.

 

[END WAY]

I suspect your time on ASR will end soon if you continue with such comments. Take it easy, no need for personal attacks.

It's interesting how expulsion is suggested by a metaphor, while passive-aggressive comments like "leave the windows open" pass without a problem. If demanding that music be emotional is grounds for censorship, then perhaps the problem isn't the tone, but the discomfort generated by questioning certain dogmas.
But don't worry, there's no personal attack here. Just a difference between hearing and listening. I'm not saying that measuring is bad, but it's not definitive, since the human ear is imperfect, and systems are designed specifically for us humans.

 

[Pearljam5000]

while passive-aggressive comments like "leave the windows open" pass without a problem. .

Oh right... now it turns out that if you don't like how they sound, it's because "they're not for everyone."

But I'll be more careful, and instead of saying they sound flat and lifeless, I'll say it's us who aren't ready.

It's funny that you mention Passive aggressive comments

 

[Sal1950]

It's not about coloring; it's about preserving what's in the recording as faithfully as possible, even in what isn't so easily measured.
Besides, if you tell me that a studio monitor cabinet is completely inert and doesn't color the sound, I honestly can't take that argument seriously anymore. No cabinet is completely inert, not even ultra-high-end ones like the M9. There are always resonances, vibrations, inherent modes of the material, and shapes that affect response, especially in the midrange. If you think a cheap MDF or molded plastic cabinet doesn't add color, then there's no longer any debate: you're talking theory, not reality.

It's interesting how expulsion is suggested by a metaphor, while passive-aggressive comments like "leave the windows open" pass without a problem. If demanding that music be emotional is grounds for censorship, then perhaps the problem isn't the tone, but the discomfort generated by questioning certain dogmas.

I think you mis-understand, music should most definitely be emotional, as long as the emotion was captured on the recordings and not being falsely created by a non-linear reproduction. You start to hint (maybe I'm falsely reading) that there is some "magic" that can't be measured? The full picture of
a speaker takes work and education to fully capture in measurement but todays tech does make that possible. It's not about folks being able to hear things that can't be measured today.
Speaking of Genelec's (which I've never owned) they do seem to have very inert cabinets but they, as a rule, are small and so much easier to control. They are very good, excellent measuring speakers within their own limitations. Nothing is perfect here.

 

[Esprit]

Oh right... now it turns out that if you don't like how they sound, it's because "they're not for everyone."

There are so many books to read, so much research done (here on the forum you can find discussions about it with those who have done this research) on speakers and listeners.
Don't like a product?
It's your right and it's subjective, but a speaker that measures well will sound good.
Have a good evening