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High End Munich 2025 - May 15-18
- Thread starter Martijn Mensink
- Start date
PBSequence
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- Jul 11, 2023
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The sound was also terrible at the event itself (I was in the audience for the Grell presentation). They had placed the stage, with speakers in the upper corners, inside a huge, mostly empty hall. Tons of reflections and reverb. The acoustics were so bad that it was sometimes hard to even understand what was being said.
And yet here, among some of the the objective people, acoustic products are considered a scam and something we don't need if speakers have a decent power response....
So much for audio science forum, right?
Really? Not sure that's true. I think the position is that 'normal furnishings' are sufficient.
Thing is 'normal furnishings' these days can mean there's next to nothing in the room except the stereo, television and a 'scandi' couch, and so all walls, floor and ceiling are reflective. Furnish your room like it's still the 1970s and you probably won't have a problem.
All furnishings are room treatment to some degree. I have two big, heavily padded sofas in my room, if I took them out would I notice? Certainly.
At shows they either use the hotel rooms or the conference rooms.
What's in a hotel room if you take out the bed? A desk, an upright chair, maybe a small armchair. So you'll need treatment for it to sound right.
Likewise the conference room only has some tables and upright chairs, the same applies.
At the annual show I attend, over the years exhibitors have been bringing more and more treatments for the rooms. First few years, no treatment, very few good sounding set-ups. Now most are at least acceptable.
What's in a hotel room if you take out the bed? A desk, an upright chair, maybe a small armchair. So you'll need treatment for it to sound right.
Likewise the conference room only has some tables and upright chairs, the same applies.
At the annual show I attend, over the years exhibitors have been bringing more and more treatments for the rooms. First few years, no treatment, very few good sounding set-ups. Now most are at least acceptable.
Furnishing can't replace acoustic treatment. It's not placed where it really needs to be, it doesn't absorb evenly, doesn't deal with resonances and ringing in lower frequencies, and there's no proper diffusion from it.
But sure, furnishing in a naked room is obviously better than nothing as it it least minimizes flutter-echo and brings some absorption and scattering.
I agree it isn't optimal. But 'sufficient' is the key word. 99 percent of us can't do a full professional treatment due to lack of a dedicated room, cost, WAF, and just not really feeling the need to go the full distance. I put myself in the latter category.
DSJR
Major Contributor
Don't forget the size of a hotel room, all pretty similar I suspect and with bad bass modes too if memory serves. Mind you, we could accurately guess if vinyl was the source playing from outside in the corridor, as ALL the vinyl rooms had a rolling bloat for bass bleeding out into the corridor and rooms using digital or master-analogue sources sounded leaner and cleaner...
Well, it doesn't have to "a full professional treatment". Some quality treatment can go a long way.
With absolutely no proper treatment, "sufficient" would imply low quality in most rooms.
'Sufficient' to me means it's a good acoustic and there are no obvious problems, but it could still be improved to some degree.
We are generalising here though, I think we have to take each situation individually.
Not myself, I have 19 panels on every surface in my living room of 46m3 with peq and only one recliner which happens to be in the perfect spot, if I get visitors they need to sit on a kitchen stool
Not a scam, but I think not needed to the level some would have you believe, especially with certain loudspeaker designs. My room sounds superb and I only have normal (even minimal) domestic furnishings … couch, carpet … I simply don’t need it … I guess I don’t subscribe to science
Well, probably many people, claiming that this isn´t necessary, haven´t heard well treated rooms and therefore come to the conclusion, that they don´t need it. Personally I can´t get enough of room treatment and add piece after piece.
Many times. Most recently in March this year.
You might also want to read what Floyd Toole has to say on the subject. Or maybe he has never been in a 'well treated room' lol.
I understand what you´re trying. But neither is he god nor is it impossible to make own experiences.
He probaly hasn't! I'm not kidding.
Harman's room is not well treated at all. And Toole hasn't done any proper research into quality treatment.
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Keith_W
Major Contributor
Can you recommend a good resource for reading about room treatment?
You're not going to find one book or research that gives you definite answers to all. More practical experience needs to come from someone who have worked in the field, have years of experience, and perhaps most importantly: Have done a lot AB testings. Latter is obviously crucial as the audio memory is short. And having conducted measurments in rooms for bass treatment is also important. I don't think we are close to having all the answers to bass absorption in small rooms from studies and standards. Clearly something is wrong when there's a great distance between some of the studies/standards and practical experience in rooms.
But Peter D'Antonio and Trevor Cox' book is a great resource to information about different types of treatment and a lot more. However, it doesn't tell you how for example a Modffractal diffuser sounds compared to a standard QRD, or a Skyline, to an Arithmetic or to a BAD Arc. At least not the older version of the book I have. I see the book was revives in 2020.